Having worked in the menswear and tailoring industry for a combined 40 years, co-founders Cormac and Anthony knew things had to change. They wanted to re-establish what a modern menswear brand should be. A brand with a purpose, focused on the things that matter: quality, fairness and the environmental impact of what goes into our garments. The clothing industry accounts for over 10% of global carbon emissions. In addition to this, brands have altered consumer attitudes through fast fashion, prioritising profit margins over ethical production. We have lost transparency of where our garments are made and the conditions our workers have to endure. Alder & Green is about slowing down, about investing in one or two key wardrobe pieces and knowing where your garment has come from and how it has been produced. Whether it be your special wedding shirt or your go-to professional shirt for the new hybrid working week, they want you to feel like a true Alder Man - one who looks sharp and feels sharp.
In this episode of the MenswearStyle Podcast we interview Cormac Folan, Co-Founder of Alder & Green about his industry background and how he launched his sustainable shirting brand in the midst of the Covid-19 pandemic. Our host Peter Brooker and Cormac talk about responsible manufacturing, raising capital, the importance of search engine optimization, BIOFUSION organic cotton, the importance of size profiling, brand loyalty, and their new London pop-store.
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Hello, welcome to another episode of the menswear style podcast. I'm your host Pete Brooker. Today I'm talking to call back Bolon, one of the cofounders of older and green, a Modern Menswear brand. And a little bit of info on odour and green before I bring cool makin older and green is about slowing down about investing in one or two key wardrobe pieces and knowing where your garment has come from and how it has been produced. Whether it be your special wedding shirt or your go to professional shirt for the new hybrid working week, they want you to feel like a true older man, one who looks sharp and feel sharp. And here is called Mac to talk about older and green in his own words. Yeah, well. So older in green is a responsible menswear brands, we just launched back in September, we focus mainly at the moment predominately on on shirts, so can men's formal and casual shirts. And I guess our main focus is around a great fitting product. So we have a wide size range and to fits. And we also source all of our fabrics as 100% organic cotton. And we manufacture as locally as possible. So we have manufacturing out in the EU as well. So yeah, we just launched in September, and we just launched the pop up as well. So that's also at the moment. Yeah, great. Well, we'll get into the pop up shortly. But Cormac, maybe we can talk about you just before you launched ordering green. So maybe tell us a little bit about your history and the skills that you brought into this project. Okay, where do I start? On a napkin usual stuff? Yeah, well, I suppose me personally, my background that you might have guessed the accent like my Chaeronea. But I'm Irish. So I grew up in the west coast and Galway. And I went to uni there. I studied Applied Maths. And as my degree, I then spent about four or five years rowing on the Irish national team and kind of, I suppose culminated with me competing in the Beijing Olympics. And then after that, I did join the real world, sadly, and I get a real job and, you know, real world kicked me in the air. So I had to go and I joined. I got really lucky, I joined a great kind of really fast growing gambling business that everyone will probably know called Paddy Power. I spent about five years there, working across digital marketing, and in particular kind of social media. Kind of a really time when I was growing massively in a brand that had, you know, huge budgets sustained in a vessel I learned an awful lot. I met some great people. I then moved to the UK and moved to London in 2015. And I started working with a menswear brand here. And I guess for the last five or six years I couldn't move through from digital marketing to become e commerce director there and and yeah, I kind of ended up on the on the board of directors of last business, managing that menswear brand. And I've had a few detours along the way in hospitality and in gifting and some other retailers. So yeah, a bit of a, a kind of a, what's the word like convoluted way of getting here, but I guess back in January, me and my co founder Anthony Procopio we, we both worked together previously, he's an expert in in manufacturing, or in shirting in particular, he's got a huge, huge wealth of knowledge. There's over 20 years in the industry. And we kind of sat down and like, yes, we've been come through a process last year and through COVID, and everything, and we kind of just wanted to reset and just do something that could be really proud of from the ground up. And I guess we balance each other out very well. I think in that I kind of come from an E commerce background, digital marketing, kind of more tech side of it. And answer is very product focused. And he's an absolute expert, as I mentioned, so we kind of were able to use both those skills and very clearly draw a line down the middle of who takes responsibility Overwatch, and started in January. And then like a good pregnancy we popped out in September over nine months, and we just went live. So yeah, that's, that's the kind of journey we've been on. Nice. And as menswear always been in the back of your mind, even when you're rowing or, you know, maybe in your younger days, is it something that you've always gravitated towards? Or did you just see a good opportunity on the digital side of a very good product? And it's good question, I guess. Yes or no, like, it's something I've been interested in, but it wouldn't have been say kind of my main focus, like, I'd be lying obviously, I was working for a gambling grant for a while. But I guess after I moved here and moved into something that I really liked, I kind of resonated with me a lot. And I guess I wouldn't be you know, very fashion led, but I'd be kind of much more focused towards kind of your style and fit and, and more classic sort of a look, you can see, you know, Oxford's and I'm kind of classic twills and that side of it. And so, yeah, that's, I guess, been the focus. And I guess what I'm, what we had there and when we spoke was that we felt that in the market in that sort of more formal side of it, it wasn't being represented and there was no balance. brands, we felt really doing it from the ground up, doing sustainability, doing responsible manufacturing really well. And we wanted to kind of, I guess, kind of work towards that delivering something we could be really proud of that we felt was was the best in the market. And we feel like we've achieved that. How did you raise the capital is the question I always ask. I know, it's a bit rude. Where did the money come from? I'm always intrigued. You know, how the hell brands like yours get off the ground? Yeah, no, I've heard you ask it before. And I was waiting for it. But we had different options. Well, I guess I guess the balance was, you know, like, what do we have ourselves versus launching kind of that sort of bootstrap mentality versus taking on more investment I've been able to invest in, in kind of, I guess, kind of hitting the ground a bit more running with a bit more volume. So we kind of ended up somewhere in between we the friends and family around. And I guess, being a little bit older and longer. The two, we had a kind of good network of people we could talk to and people we've worked with previously, and family that have put money in so much have been really, really lucky with who have come on board. And we raise enough to be able to kind of, you know, launch a product and not have to compromise, I guess, throughout the kind of production and through the launch phase and, you know, produce a website that we're proud of, and a product that we're proud of. And the good thing is with some of our investors, they're actually specialists in certain areas. So we've got, you know, an SEO expert in one of our investors, we've got digital marketing experts, we've got, you know, kind of an angel investor experts who are able to open network. So yeah, as I said, we've been very lucky with people have come on board so far. Yeah, yeah, SEO is certainly something that you need on your side. I remember when I was running a shop back in the day, I thought SEO was a myth. People were telling me, it was my job to describe all of the products on this website. So I would always do it quite glibly with tongue in cheek, you know, these socks look, all right. They're not pulling out any trees. There they are for 20 quid, and some, my friend will go no, no, no, you've got to kind of put all the keywords in, you need to do at least 300 words on who then who's going to read 300 words on a pair of socks. But yeah, the Google crawler. That's the rate of the Google crawlers. And you have to you have to kind of bow down to but yeah, you're right. Like SEO is a bit of a nightmare for most brands, you really only know about it, when it kicks you in the eyes. Like if you're, if you're an established brand, and you take an SEO hit, you know all about it. So you're kind of living with that, like, you know, in a world where Google can kind of dictate brands, you know, growths are declining in single swoop. So algorithm changes. So, yeah, it's a murky hello world. Yeah. And it takes I think, so I'm of an age now where all of this stuff is like another language. It's like algebra to me. Whereas I feel like the kids of today without sounding like old man, Brooker are kind of bled into this, you know, they're sat down in front of the computer, they're fed all the coding all the SEO, it's more of a second nature to them. So I don't know, maybe, maybe I'm just at an age now where I just feel like I'm closer to the finish line, then I'm at the start, and I don't need to learn it. I'm not gonna comment on that later. So let's get back onto the shirt. Colour. What said what would you say is uniquely different about your shirt? So what were you trying to set out from the start to make different? Yeah, as I said, I think I think as we sell out, we really didn't want to compromise in any aspect. So we were very focused to kind of create a product that we could be really proud of, and that kind of aligned with our values around sustainability. And I think, you know, every business to talk to every new business, it has to be completely central to what they do. And I think that's kind of, you know, I've heard previous guests talk about the same thing, it's, any new business has stopped at the forefront of what they're trying to do. So we set out to kind of source the best material we could get with that in mind. And we actually am pregnant with the LBMA mill in Italy, which are, you know, we believe the best male in the world. And they just launched a bio fusing rings, which is a forensic Lee traceable back to the farms, organic cotton. So when we got samples of that, and we looked at it, and we went after our beanie, because we knew how good they were, and we wanted to produce the best product we could. And they just launched it so worked out perfectly. And they were kind of happy to work with us on this project. And they've supported us from day one, they've been brilliant. Then we also wanted to source directly from the manufacturing. So we went out to Portugal, we met with a really good state of the art family run Factory out there. So they create kind of smaller batches for brand our size, and just very high on quality. So we've ended up with is, is a beautiful fabric that's 100% organic and very technical product creation in the factory. And yeah, and it's more locally sourced that has a lower carbon footprint. And that's a big part of what we're trying to do is reduce that down and then offset it over time. And I guess the other point to come to is that I'm slightly obsessed by fish I think men are, you know, very obsessed by fate. Every piece of data I've seen in the past just that thing is 95% of man's fate is the most important thing when they're purchasing, especially for shirts and in this category. So we're slightly obsessed by that too. And as I mentioned, we both come from menswear and shirts in particular. So we kind of have a wealth of knowledge over what the size profile looks like. And for men, and we've produced to fix that we're, you know, and so far, it's been kind of been validated to fix that we believe will cover nearly every type of body shape. And I guess, we're trying to keep that choice slightly binary, so we won't have a really good sized profile. But what we're also offering, which I think sets us apart is a local fit object, but I'm calling local fit. And we're just launching this week, which is the post purchase piece, right? So I come from a ecommerce background, we're an online business predominantly, and you know, yourself trying to get your perfect fit up front is difficult, right? I think every man has struggled with that. And, you know, it's the challenge of a pure online purchase journey. So we've done everything we can to make the Fit guides as well as possible, you know, we've got, you know, clarity around sizing, we've got kind of T shirt guide size guiding up there as well, which can help inform, we also recognise that we're not going to get it 100%, right for everyone. So we're offering a and this is London only to start off with a kind of post purchase alteration service so that you're not happy with the fit, you get, we will come to you, we will measure the product and make sure it's fit to you. And we'll take it away and alter it and return it back. That's kind of our commitment to fit the data we're very serious about. I think having the pop up there at the moment as well kind of helps us I guess, understand that and facilitate that for people on top of the online piece as well. Wow, that's quite a commitment. So if I, let's just take me as a case study, I'm about five, six in heels with a 56 inch chest 14 and a half inch collar. I mean, what size are you call mark? If you don't mind me asking? I'm 6364 Depends on what I'm talking really, about visually now people can kind of imagine the Schwarzenegger and Divito twins poster, how do you offer that kind of profile range between you and I in like a ready to wear genre. So that's what we have, we got the colour sizing. So we've got 30 sizes, so you're 14 and a half, you said you'd be probably extra slim from what I can see on the not just trying to compliment you, but it's true in good shape. So you're probably 14 and a half extra stem, which we which we have, and we've got three sleeve length, so we've got a 30 334 and a half and 36. So I'm not too sure if you're focusing probably closer to that kind of 33 inch sleeve length. I am six three. So I'm a 16 and a half neck, I have a 34 and a half inch. Um, and I would be extra slim on a good day as well. So yeah, we have those size ranges. And that's what I mean we can we've covered enough spectrum that we believe we can kind of off the off the hanger off the peg be able to kind of deliver that fit profile to the majority of people. And I guess it comes from having alone knowledge and in in the area and with the kind of body compositions over time that we know. And we've slightly tweaked the fits over the last year or so and use people and I'm sure a lot of my friends and family are sick of me trying to get them to try stuff on but yeah, we think we got a really good size profile and that can accommodate most types. Have you thought about doing I know quite a few shirt brands do this do a subscription service? Yeah, I think like everything's on the table right now. Right? We launched a month ago. So potentially is not something we launched with because like I guess it's just it's not the model we went down you know, we went to kind of just go that sort of more more straight up transactional kind of direct customer case where we will have that customer record and we can kind of communicate with them over time and hopefully they'll come back in abundance when they're happy with the fit but yeah, it's potentially something other line we would do and I guess once you capture and someone men are quite sticky when they when they find their fit, they'll tend to stick to it. I was actually going to store yesterday and he's been wanting the same shirt for years just because it's the brand that found he found the right fit with you know, and so we want to be the brand that can provide that for people with you know, a really good durable shirt that will last a lifetime. And what's the reaction been like? Opening up the pop up store and why why where you are in land land conduit Street. Yeah, well, I guess the reactions been really good. So we got in there on Monday. And so still very early days, but like such nice people on the street, I guess in terms of destination it is it's known for menswear down there are some really good brands on the street. We're actually right beside our clinic and lucky you know, an amazing tailor and we've got 40 colori up the road. We've got Oliver Spencer folk down the road, some really nice brands on there, I guess. And we want to just get down into the heart of it. There's a lot of law firms around there with that kind of type of customer as well which we accommodate. It's also you know, we've got Oxford buttons down which work with more cons like the casual media agency type of vibe for for office wear. And so, yeah, we want to just get down and talk to people and get them feeling the product and seeing people's reaction and I guess what you kind of lose a little bit on an online brand is you kind of lose that face to face kind of ability to Have a conversation back and forth. You know, you can have all the data you want in the world. But, you know, it's also great to having a conversation with someone to see what makes them tick and see how they respond to kind of the different aspects of the brand. Yeah, that's really cool. Well, I can't wait to get down there. Like I told you of my query. Based Central. So is it I think it's near Holborn, right closest tube. Oh, that's right. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, very near open, but flaming walk. Yeah. And actually, I should say that on December 4, there is a constraint party there. So if you are planning before Christmas, and they just told us about yesterday, and we're getting involved as well, so the below the drinks and mince pies, and there's a reindeer apparently walking on the streets, so it could be a bit of fun phone. You had me at drinks, I'll be there. But listen, cool, man. Congratulations, mate. I mean, it must have been quite a struggle getting this off the ground during pandemic, did you manage to get over to Portugal, like you say, during that time of? What were the obstacles in that respect? Yeah, we did. I think I think, you know, like, I wouldn't be comfortable sitting here kind of talking about direct relationship with the factory on SPX been down there. And we sat in there. And we've talked to him. And we worked kind of side over the whole manufacturing process. We've done three times, we think we've done in the height of the pandemic around April, and that was fun. Like Reiner. I went stayed wouldn't let us on the plane. And they had to kind of ring true with our kind of, we had the letter written by the factory to tell them that we were allowed come through, and they were ringing through the Portugal so. And then you had we spent, we spent about 1500 quid in PCR tests just on that trip alone. So it was a, you know, it was a bit of a commitment just from a PC Ortez point of view. But it was worth doing absolutely worth doing, because it gave us the reassurance coming back, you know, where, you know, just to see it, it's very hard, you know, to kind of judge online across the room, you know, yourself. So, actually being down there and meeting the people, we were so confident coming back to we've got the right partner, and it gave us a lot of reassurance. Awesome, great. Well, yeah, it must feel so good. Having those relationships in face to face, especially in these times where it's just so easy to do what we're doing, which is just kind of doing over zoom, but you need to feel the fabric, you need to know how the fudge is packed, I suppose and, and have that confidence in the people that you're hoping will deliver for you. Yeah, I should say as well, all of our packaging is recycled and recyclable in the bags or comment potato starch. So, you know, at every point we've kind of gone through, we've tried to kind of make it as sustainable as possible. And as kind of, you know, as true to what we're trying to achieve, in our respect as well. Nice. I just had a guest on the show that was talking about pop ups, sorry to dial back to pop ups, but it's a plan for you to stay in this and then maybe continue the lease or look for our pop ups and kind of populate the brand. Before that. Yeah, yeah, I've been actually it's a funny one. Because, you know, it's, I was saying to somebody today, I was like, it actually feels like we're being innovative opening a store. Like it's, it's kind of gone. So backwards, almost like everything has been so online for the last two years. And to be completely honest, the start, it wasn't like puppet was always on the plan. But we kind of brought it forward because we felt you know what, like, the most important thing right now is actually just getting into customers and feeling things. And it's the best way to do it still no matter what. Right? Yeah. And so the plan is, yeah, I think it all comes down to kind of the commercials and how things work. But you know, if we definitely would like to have a physical presence and lamb's conduit Street, now I say this after four days, it feels like the right place. So we'll see what happens. But we obviously have Instagram ad older and green. So if we ever do change, you know, that'll be where we posting it out there and be on the website as well. Cool. And you said, you're in a bit of a hub of tailors down there. If you got any thoughts of maybe collaborating with some tailors or perhaps even going down a bespoke element for shirt makers? I know we're kind of looking down the road. Yeah. What do you think about Yeah, yeah, like, I think I think right now we're focused on just kind of getting off the ground as we are, I think definitely in terms of partnerships. Yeah, it's like we're having a coffee and we get talking, let's, let's see what happens. But I think, right now it's with the batch we've produced, we want to just make sure we kind of get, you know, get that and get learned from that. And we kind of move from there and kind of keep our priorities focused on that. And then obviously, we can expand the range out over time. And that is the plan. And everything I should say it is a quite a core range, we kind of just tried to take what we believe are kind of those sort of core wardrobe is essential pieces of white and blue shirts, Oxford and twills. cutaway buttoned down. And so we kind of kept it quite tight. That's what allows us give that breadth of size option. And that's kind of our really kind of positioning so so yeah, definitely over time. Right now. I think it's focused on getting getting feedback and getting the product out there and getting people's you know, getting on people's backs. And I guess later down the road, we'll get all those weird quirks like cocktail cuffs, whatever cocktail cuff range. Are there any sort of like shirt idiosyncrasies that kind of appeal to you where you look at a thing and go, Oh, actually, that looks pretty cool. I'm gonna have to get up a range and do a limited run on these. Like To be completely honest, not really like it is a very classic well constructed shirt and I think one thing we have done it's very slight branding people We have kind of a green trim on the colour. And it's something I know in the past that I kind of always liked as well as some kind of detail. So we also recognise a form of shirts, you don't need sticking branding on the front, right or making it very kind of in your face. But what we what we decided we settled on was a very subtle green lining on the inside the colour and the inside of the sleeve. And it's kind of a little nod to the kind of the green nature of the brand and of the of what we're doing. But also for the, for that customer when, when they do lifted off the hanger, they kind of recognise what's gone into it. And that's kind of like a little branding signature that that we've put in there as well on it on every shirt. Nice. Cool back. Do you look at shirts in films at all? Now? I mean, I kind of think you've your head and your feet are firmly in shirt world. So do you when you see a film nowadays, you're kind of taken out of the movie all of a sudden and think crikey looks pretty damn good in that shirt. Yeah, well, I went to the Bond movie recently, you know, and he looks pretty good most things, you know, so he definitely wears a white shirt very well. And I think actually like to that point that it never went past the street I'm joined looking at what it is and what that is, you know, what the style is and where they are and trying to piece all that bit together. So yeah, you kind of never really switch off once you get into something like this because it is it is a product that people wear a lot you know, and I think it's gone through a very, you know, over the last 12 months, last two years, it's obviously the shirt. It's it's been such a kind of roller coaster ride. So I think, you know, I know myself getting back out there to putting the shirt back on I felt kind of good about things I felt kind of smart again, I couldn't move out of my V necks and and trackies and kind of actually put on a pair of chinos and shirt actually, there was something kind of nice and kind of novel about getting out there and feel inspired again. So I think we've definitely crossed that bridge and I think the new office world where people are kind of hybrid into today's in there I think it very much works for what we're trying to achieve which is that sort of less is more you know you invest in those key pieces for those days that you might be in the office or you're going to an occasion or a special night out and but it's not about just buying reams and reams and reams of product that kind of lower quality that that swung last so we're very much about kind of less is more sort of, you know ethos. Yeah, definitely well a cool Mac I guess it was a little remiss of me not to wear a shirt for our call today. Let the Forgive me the peloton just I won't judge. I won't judge better so if you pop down to the store we'll sort you out. Yeah, all right, well, I'll have to remedy that. But cool Mac thanks for coming on older and green. The place to visit online check out all the work check out how SEO stir also has a great products and in the shirts there but also down lammed conduit street like we say closest tube probably Russell's scramming Holborn anyway, all the information on the website and and give the the Social Shout Out once more. Where can people find on Instagram for me? Yeah, all during green at all during green al D or AMD CI or EA? Right and we'll put all the links over on the show notes over at menswear style. But in the meantime, thanks. Cool Mac. Thanks for jumping on. Yeah, thanks so many of you have a good one. 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