MANTL represents a range of skincare products for the Face and Scalp that are inspired by bald folks, but work for everyone. The brand aims to support men with information, products, and a supportive community of co-conspirators, creating the space for you to move forward—free from the baggage and stereotypes of the past, empowering you to live your fullest life. The Bald Journey is the process that many men go through as they experience hair loss. It’s not always a linear process, but the common phases that happen as an individual moves through this experience include denial, anger, bargaining, depression, and acceptance.
In this episode of the MenswearStyle Podcast we interview Peter Ricci, Co-Founder at MANTL about how the brand which makes skincare for balding men was launched. Peter started losing his hair in his mid twenties and later, with the support of his wife, decided to shave it all off. He then realised that women have a huge selection of skincare lines available to them whereas men didn't, especially for the scalp. Our host Peter Brooker and Peter Ricci talk about their personal experiences of going bald, how MANTL product differs from others, the importance of SPF, how funding was raised, and the psychology of shaving your head for the first time.
Whilst we have your attention, be sure to sign up to our daily MenswearStyle newsletter here. We promise to only send you the good stuff.
Hello, welcome to another episode of The menswear style podcast. I'm your host Pete Brooker. Today, I'm gonna be speaking to Peter Ricci he is one of the co founders of mantle. mantle represents a range of skincare products for the face and scalp. They're inspired by bald folks, but work for everyone. And they have a whole community and a whole movement going on over their website. But more importantly, they have some great products. And we're going to get into that now. I'm going to get Peter to introduce himself and the brand. And away we go. Of course, yeah, so I'm Pete Richie, I'm the CEO and co founder one of the co founders of mantle. mantle is a it's a champion brand for bald and balding. Our focus is on building community and skincare for people who are bald or balding and, and really helping and encouraging them and empowering them to embrace natural change. So instead of taking a you know, a view that Oh, you need to keep your hair and if you have your hair, you're gonna have all the things you want in your life. So you got to take these pills, creams, etc, we're actually we're our position is this natural change. And, you know, the sooner you embrace this natural change, the sooner you're going to be more confident the sooner you're going to really be yourself. And, and we do that through building this community and and through our really simple yet elevated sophisticated skincare line. But this started. So my background before mantel was with the Honest Company, which is Jessica Alba's baby and beauty company, I was the head of retail sales there. And before even before that, when I was working in skincare, beauty and baby, I started losing my hair, I started losing my hair in my in my early 20s. And my career started I was actually in the US Army, I graduated from West Point, the United States Military Academy at West Point, I went into the army as an as an officer, I actually did two tours in Iraq. So during that time, I was definitely losing my hair, but it was all hidden because I was wearing a helmet or a hat or, or something until I until I got into the civilian world. Where I worked. My first job was with Google. Did I notice that man, I'm I'm really losing my hair. And and I was hanging on. And after a few years, my wife really supported me in just owning this bald look. And she said, Why don't you just shave it, you know, just just get over with, you know, get it over with. And, and so I did and I, you know, came back and she was like, wow, you You look great. You look like Andre Agassi. And I was like, Okay, I have and, and so it just, it just kind of stuck. And and as I work my way, kind of through a couple other career careers and jobs, I landed at honest and I got to really know the beauty business and really saw that on the women's side of the aisle, they really have a lot of great skincare, for every issue that might be out there and men don't and, and so I saw this opportunity this whitespace to really go after the ball market and go after it in a way where bald men could have a skincare line for them specifically for them. And we've actually have we have some women in the line as well too. So I don't want to do exclude them but but we really want obviously focusing on helping men embrace that natural change. And, and we've you know, I think we've built a really nice community that's continuing to grow to help men through that. And you know, simple skincare line that that really protects and nourishes your faces scout. Interesting. Hey, when did it start? When did you say that you launched the brand or maybe when was the concept conceived? Yeah. So the so the concept of it was really around 2016 2015 2016 when I was at the Honest Company, and and then when I left honest, myself and two other co founders, so Irene Kong, who is another co founder, who is really focused on the product side of the business, she was working at the Honest Company, and she had some experience at at Dollar Shave Club as well. Soon after I was leaving. She was leaving honest, to start to work at Dollar Shave. And we ended up kind of working nights and weekends on this concept. And then we brought on are really the face of the brand karamo Brown, who's on Netflix Queer Eye. And if you're unfamiliar with that show, it's it's a show really focused on on doing makeovers, and helping people through whatever issues or struggles they may have. And so we knew that karamo was struggling with losing his hair. And, and he ended up embracing it in about season three, I believe it was, but the first couple seasons, he was actually painting his hairline on to hide it. And, and so he ended up embracing it. And we we pitched him this idea to found this brand all focused on empowering the bald and balding and he loved the idea. And a couple years later, we launched in February of 2020. Which, which we timed the pandemic perfectly. But But yeah, so that's when we launched and that's how the team came together. We're also in the process of we've launched in the in the United Kingdom, um, with our business partners, as well through through the UK. And we just launched two weeks ago, so or mid August was when we launched in the UK. Alright, okay, cool. I was, so I was just thinking, I'm fully on board as well. And the journey of going forward, maybe I can touch upon that was. So I'm 4840 something, and it started in my 20s. So we're talking about like, 20 years ago, but I was in a band for pretty much all of my life up until the age of 30. Free. And like you I was so I'm kind of customer facing as it were, yeah, brown. And I'm very conscious that if you're in a band that does help to have hair. Unless, unless you're recognised as the guy that doesn't have hair like you're you're the mobi of the world. And that is your thing. But if you're in like a punk band, or maybe a boy band, I mean, I was way too old to be in a boy band, but it does help to have, yes, so I would always wear a hat or something or be shoved in the shadows in the back. And do you think that helps anybody's confidence at that age? Right? So yeah. Now I don't know, it was kind of the same. Have you ever like your hair just kind of hung on for about 10 years, but I had that kind of slow death, my hair where it didn't like just fall out overnight, and then maybe a year or two later as time to shave? It was like this kind of ongoing agony. But I don't, I don't actually think people really know the kind of inner turmoil that dudes have over that. So yeah, I sat in the community. Yeah, it's interesting, we actually have mapped the five stages of grief, which may be you can corroborate this to losing your hair. And you know, those five stages are denial, anger, bargaining, depression, and acceptance. And so, you know, and those five grief is all about loss. And, and you're This is there's no, there's the this is where the rubber meets the road around around loss is you're losing your hair, and you're losing in some ways your identity, or you think you are losing your identity. So the turmoil is real, and what we've, what we've done in the community is whether that's through Instagram, our private Facebook group, you know, karamo reaching out to folks and, and, and talking to them. We've really, we have never pressured anybody or want to pressure anybody to shave their head. That's not really what it's about, but we want to be there for them when they say Geez, like, Am I really losing my hair, you know, and and kind of educate them about hey, you might be you might not, but it's okay. And and you know, what we believe is that that natural change on that process or that journey as you described it, and we describe it is real and and knowing that there's other people out there that have gone through it is really important. Like you said, Peter, there's I don't men don't really talk about it. Right. It was it's all internal. You're wearing hats you're hiding it and and so knowing that there's a group and a community out there that can help men through it, I think is just is one step in in really breaking down this stigma that balding is a bad thing that balding something to hide. So that's really where our community and how we think about that journey. And what we do, you know, and it's interesting to there's the other piece of this, and where we started was we started with data. There was actually a study done out of University of Pennsylvania and there's been a couple of them that say That men that are bald, and men that have hair, like on the ends of the spectrum are really viewed as confident and viewed by the other sex as viewed as confident and you know sexy and all and all those positive attributes the guys in the middle as you were saying that are hanging on other than maybe like a Jude Law How is he held on I mean I caught that guy 20 years ago ago but he's only got another good season ahead of him no idea how he's done it Yeah, he does hang it on but but but he's somehow pulled it off. But I think you know, in between there that you know, the opposite sex does view that hanging on as like, as a weak as weak or as not as attractive as kind of owning it in one way or another. And so I think that's what again, we come from a data perspective and some research and then building that community to help men through it and then really providing premium products you know, that are for the face and scout so we designed our products specifically for that. Right. So maybe we can talk about the products as well how does it differ from other moisturising products? Yeah, so every so just to talk a little bit about the face and scalp so the scalp has more sebaceous glands or more oil glands and really anywhere else on the body. It ages faster. I believe it's somewhere between five and eight times faster than anywhere else on the body as well. And in your skin, your skin on your face is also different than this in on your arms, or you know your chest etc. And so the the design of the products and the ingredients that we have are all focused on those two areas doesn't mean you couldn't use it on your on your body but we're really focused on the face and scalp so a guy like you a guy like me might have a short cut. You know might go all the way to the skin might have a bald spot might be hanging on the products are designed for every really step of the way. So for instance we start and we have a very simple routine, face and scalp cleanser. So you shouldn't be washing your your face with shampoo and kind of vice versa you know so with you shouldn't be using soap on your on your hair if you have hair or scalp and so we've designed a cleanser that is you know is moisturising, but it's also really a clean, clean scent, clean feel for the face and scalp so you can it's kind of a two in one if you think about it you can wash your face and scalp with that cleanser. And then we have an invisible daily SPF. So that SPF is clear. So for guys with beards for guys with dark complexions for guys with light complexions for it's made for any skin tone any skin type. It is it goes on matte. So if you do have again, like I mentioned a little bit of a bald spot, it's not going to flake or whiten in the back of your head if you have a receding hairline. Same thing. If you have a beard, it's kind of white mint, it's not going to flake and so that design is is innovative to us. We own our own formulas as well. So we created our own formulas which is why it took a couple years for us to launch. Then we have an age defence moisturiser, which is focused on combating fine lines, helping with wrinkles helping with sunspots, and that has all really you know great ingredients that that help with all of those things. Not only do we have ingredients that moisturise and help with those fine lines but also were made without so Irene and I came from a background of Honest Company which was really focused on clean products and so you know, we have no sulphates no parabens, oh no synthetic fragrances or dyes. No fake lates and really taking a lot of those ingredients out and coming with a really naturally derived suite of products. And then finally we have no shine sheets so a lot of bald guys complain about shyness on their head. And what instead of having a wipe or a wet wipe, we have a what you would find on the women's side of the aisle like a blotting sheet. This is it's a chart it's a bamboo charcoal, so it's sustainable, sustainable product that you use to wipe away oil and and you know dirt if you've got dirt on your head but mainly oil soaks up that oil and reduces that shine. And that's it. That's what we've started with. We do have plans to launch and extend some additional products but we wanted to start with something very simple, not hard to understand, easy to use for men but premium products as well. And the last thing I'll say is that the design of our packaging? No, we've gotten great compliments on it. Not only that these are award winning products. So Men's Health magazine awarded us brand Innovator of the Year, our SPF one best SPF from Esquire magazine. Our packaging is really counter worthy as we call it. And we didn't want to perpetuate that idea. There are other bald brands out there. And you know, they're more focused on a mass kind of scale and work we really want to be aspirational. We want it to be, I think the prices is right, it's a premium price, but it's not a you know, it's not at the luxury level. But it's a good price. And you know, our products last in the in our full size last for three months. If you use it every day, and and it's it's got that aspirational, really kind of nice feel for your counter and for your for your bathroom. Nice. Yeah, I'm looking at the products now on the site that a look terrific, mate. Congrats to look really cool. Thank you. We'll leave all the links in the show notes. But mantle.co ma n t l.co is place you can find some of these and yeah, I don't think people really take into account how much the SPF and the sun cream is kind of needed for gender like you and I and you and perhaps more people in the community. I mean, it's aside from going out and just wearing a hat all day in the sun. You know, it's which kind of gets is also not a good luck because you're sweating through those things. And then, you know, you can you're kind of waiting for other people to let you know that you're burning up almost. I mean, I'll give you a case in point my girlfriend and I, and we were abroad. I didn't actually take her out but I did tell her look, you know, if you see me going, you know lighting up over here, then you've got to let me know that my head's on fire. she of course didn't catch that until it was too late. And then the rest of the holiday I'm just flaking off like something out Goldmember so it's it's kind of crucial for for guys like us to have that product. But you know, a decent one, not one that you can just lather on and look a little bit crazy. Oh, yeah. Right. Yeah, we didn't, you know, that's why that clear, matte, lightweight feel is really, really important when we created the product because one guys don't like to have a lot of, you know, stuff on their face, most guys don't. And, and so really needed to have those attributes of the madness where it literally goes on, almost, I would call it like a powder refinish. The second is, you know, it's very lightweight. And then the third is that clear nature Have you seen those guys wearing the sunscreen that's like whitening and, and, you know, and men of colour or darker skin tones, they're not gonna wear that. And, and, and even men that are that are, you know, really light skin tone, you know, I think they don't like to look that way either. So we wanted to make sure that that was really part of the of the product. And the last thing I'll say about about that piece, and when what you just talked about was the the original idea the seed was when I was going to meetings, and like you said, I didn't want to wear suntan lotion. I didn't want to wear you know, something that's felt like I was at the beach when I was going to meet with clients. I wanted to you know, wear a nice suit, and just be me and not get burned. And and not smell like coconuts and pineapples. And so while I like coconuts and pineapple place when I was at it, you know, on a client meeting, it wasn't something that I wanted to convey to to the customer. Yeah, no, no, that's that's it's not the strongest smell. I mean, we go on about look at the strongest smell in the boardroom. Right, exactly. So I'm curious how how did you get the funding together for a project like this? For the bridge? Yeah. Yeah. So we we went through kind of a number of different ways. So we started with a friends and family round to do the prototyping of the products. So we knew that we wanted the products to be ours. We knew that we wanted them to be special and unique and differentiated in the marketplace. So we kind of priced out with a formulator in a lab, how much it would cost to do a number of revolution or revs on a on a prototype to get where we wanted to be. And, and so we raised you know about 150,000 on our friends and family and I just emailed all my friends and family and said hey, I'm starting this brand here's, here's my pitch deck, if you want to talk about it, you know, minimum, I gave him a, you know, pretty low minimum investment amount to kind of get as many people in and we were able to raise it, you know, I'd say over a couple months, get the prototypes, going. Do some, some testing. And then once we had the prototypes we did. We did a survey of bald men, essentially. And that survey was, you know, do you feel like you need something for your face and scalp, but that's not out there in the market and overwhelming. You know, we surveyed probably about 500 men, you know, and the first question is, are you do you perceive yourself as bald or balding. So we really went out to like, 1000 men, surprisingly, we got about, like I said, about 500 of them came back and said, Yes, I do. And so I thought that was really interesting. I mean, we, we went older on the survey, you know, 35 and older. But, um, but but that was a higher stat than we had imagined. And then we took that data, and we, and we, and we built a bit of a brand. And we went out to some venture capital, and just really anybody and everybody that would talk to us. And we got a tonne of nose, you know, just like every startup does. But we get, we started to get people to believe in it. And we got a couple angel investors. And like, for instance, my, my old boss at the Honest Company, Brian Lee in made it an angel investment. And a lot of the westpoint community who has a great alumni network, made investments, and then we started to get some, some bigger investments. So from Rise of the rest, which is Steve cases, Seed Fund. And, and then airwing ventures, Dan Bellevue out of LA, he was former Disney ventures, and we were able to raise, you know, right around a million dollars to get the brand out there into manufacturing to do all the thing. Yeah, well, I kind of want to be on your newsletter, as in your personal email newsletter, because like, those are sort of emails I like where you talk about ideas instead of people think the old cliche is it's always more interesting to talk about projects than it is to talk about. And, yeah, I get, you know, I get a bunch of emails, like, Can you give me 20 bucks to jump out of an aeroplane for charity? so willing, good, but I never get, there's not a lot in it for me at the end of the day. Right? Right. Yeah. Well, I will add you to my personal email list. Yeah, the next time you come up with another great idea. Count me and that'd be great. So, a bit of a tangent. Pete, I'm curious also. So I kind of gave you a little backstory about my journey. And like the, the 10 year agony. And I do remember that day where I shaved everything off in the evening, and then went to work the next day, obviously, didn't get a night's sleep, but I was just reading it, you know, I knew it'd be turning up. By the way, I'm turning up to a construction site, I did construction, I worked in a woodshop yard. So I knew that I would just be in for a pasting from all my, all my work buddies. And they got they did it they added a nice little round. And then after about one cup of coffee and a few jokes, that was it, and, and right, and then the relief. I don't know if anyone else expresses this, but the kind of the fifth rule when you kind of give it up and you accept it. If you could just cut from one to five because yeah, it's like a zit when you're a teenager, you know, so much bigger in your mind. And it's exploding everywhere. And the girls aren't going to share, you know, but then, you know, no one's paying any more attention than you are to it because it's so big in your head, but not big in anyone else's. Right. I was curious, does that? Is that a reaction that a lot of people have that when they do go through the process and have it shaved, then it's not that big a deal? Yeah, I think there's there's two things that we hear a lot of actually, I think some of the social media, whether that's I think it's Snapchat I think Tick Tock has it they now have these bald filters. Are you actually PSG speaking of football, or soccer in America, PSG did a whole thing of like every player with this bald filter. And so I obviously you know, it's not gonna look exactly like but I think a lot of guys are worried about well, am I gonna have a lumpy head and raise my head gonna look weird as my, you know, that's one piece of it. The second piece of it is what are people going to say? Yeah, and whether that's a loved one, whether that's work colleagues. That is 100% what we get a lot of and we've actually we have a blog, the mantel manual, that is talk, there's one topic that tops talk specifically about this and you You nailed it like it really is in your own mind. You may get a couple of comments that are like, oh, whoa, hey, look at this, you know, and if you embrace it and own it and just kind of move on drive on, it's not a big deal. This is the new you some guys have even taken it and said, we've seen this tweet, we covered a guy on our Instagram that he shaved his head. And then he was like, I'm just going to change a lot about me that for the positive. So he started working out, he started eating right, he started and now he's like, in incredible shape. Like a Jason Statham looking got, you know, he looks great. He's in great shape. And he used it as a tool to kind of change who he is. I recently had an experience, I'm I'm early 40s. And I had an experience where we had, I think there's just maybe two years ago, and I had just launched mantle. And it was my 20 year high school reunion. And when I was in high school, I had, you know, a lot of hair, like not It wasn't long, but it was it was thick, you know, grey hair. And so now I'm showing up to people that have a lot of people that hadn't seen me in 20 years. And I'm the bald guy, you know, and, and a lot of those feelings of insecurity, of, you know, kind of dread of what running playing things out of my mind that were like, well, what are they gonna say what, and no one said a thing. No one said, No one said anything. They just cut I, you know, saw me and it was, hey, Pete, how are you know, and I actually had a woman come up to me, who was a classmate of mine who had just recovered from cancer and was completely bald. And she knew about the brand and she loved it. And, and I was kind of like, wow, I really have nothing. I'm so grateful for what I have in my health and, you know, obviously want her to recover. And I believe she has an, but it kind of made me think of Wow, imagine the courage that she has to show up completely bald, to her high school reunion, and I'm worried about you know, this and so, it it, it is a real thing. It is a real feeling. And I think what we've also found is that when guys have done it, they come back and they say God, I should have done that five years ago. Yeah. Because this is so great. I feel so good about myself. And it's like one less thing to worry about. And and also, you mentioned like the comments or what people are going to say about you it would be a lot worse I imagine and it has been for me turning up after not seeing someone so long and you just kind of holding on to the hair with everything you got, you know those kind of dreaded Oh, you know that the comments are the little kind of backlinks that you'll get for just hanging on to your hair is a lot worse. In my mind. I was in my mind. And also agree You're right. It does. As soon as I accepted that, you know yet you're bored and you're you know, you're going to be going through life like this. I'm I'm a short dude. So I'm like five, six in heels on a good day. And I'm bored. I started running like that. Almost like that same day I got into shape I made sure looked after myself. I just said look, I'm not going to be bored. Five, five and fat. Yeah, I can't have the triple whammy because I've got the gift of the gab I'm not gonna pull women with my wallet or my tongue. So I've got to have at least just be slim, Jim, you know, just got to give him that. So yeah, exactly. Exactly. And you mentioned like Jason, Steven, I was gonna ask, do you find nowadays we got the likes of like Dwayne Johnson, Jason Statham. And yeah, I think they're more iconic ball dudes out there that perhaps they weren't. I mean, in my generation, you'd have game show presenters that would wear wigs all the way throughout their life, right? No. So that was, that was the kind of stuff that you grew up on. Now. We're kind of into this honest phase where it's Jason Stephens crushing it, whatever. It is a 25 year old fiance or wife wherever yours, but you know, I mean, is there more of that going around more kind of? Yeah, I think, I think I think so. Definitely. I think you know, when I think back to the original guy, this was way back, but you will Brenner. You remember him? He was kind of the original and then there was Kojak you know, I don't know if you had any Savalas? Yeah. All I said, these guys were kind of the original kind of badass is, but it wasn't. It wasn't as ubiquitous as it is now. Which I think anytime I would give a pitch to an investor, I said, Now you're gonna see bald people everywhere. And because it's more in their mind, and they do I mean, I'll get emails with it, but I got it. I'm like, Get them all. And all I see is bald guys, you know, and and so I do think it's more ubiquitous, I think it's more I think about even john travolta. I was actually yesterday and on the, on a camera or a magazine, but it was one of the tabloid magazines or something. And there is bald, talking about, you know, it was something about John's health and you know, how he's transformed and everything and he looks great. He does. I think, for him, I mean, the guy. Yeah, I mean, the guy because he was hanging on man, he had, you know, really just that, that he was dyeing his hair and everything, and he looks awesome. And I just think there's, there is more of these guys that are just saying, you know what, screw it, I'm not going to hang on, I'm not going to get the surgery, I'm not going to take pills that I don't know what they're going to do in the long run. Not gonna use the creams, you know, that say, Hey, don't touch babies after use this. You know, it's like, what? radioactive or something? And and, you know, I think it's, there's just more men that are just saying, you know, what, this is who I am. And I think also, it's not just those, you know, the the rock and Jason state them and john travolta and all of them. But I also think it's more of this, like, self love, self acceptance movement that's happening. And I think it's, women have always been, I think very good about that about beauty and taking care of their skin and taking care of themselves. And I think men are now with from fitness, to skincare to grooming, all of that is starting to move in that direction. But it's also moving in an authentic direction where, hey, I'm just gonna, this is who I am. I'm, I'm, you know, I'm short to, I'm short. I'm, I'm losing my hair. But this is me. And you can take your Take it or leave it. Yeah. And you just have to try and get into the best possible version of you. And I think a lot of that was the, for me, at least it was going online dating. So you had to almost go like, this is exactly who I am. These are the shots and they and you know that they can then go further levels down the line, look, your Facebook up previous photos. So you can't have everything staged where the wind is just right. And your hair is just just hanging on. But in the right angle. I mean, you turn up to a date and you're like, what you have to hold that pose. All right. So with a lot of that you had to kind of, you know, not just get like the perfect avatar, but you had to be that avatar as well. Yeah, you're gonna get that shape. Exactly. Yeah. I knew Brenner. He shaved his head. Right. So he wasn't bald. He actually just shaved his I think he did it. Yeah, I think I I don't know because I've never seen him with with hair. But there was a game show or a show he was on, you know that that we have a video of when we were doing some research and he talks about it. He's like, yeah, just they were like, why do you shave your head? It's so odd. This might have been in the 50s maybe even earlier and he you know, he was like, well, I just like it I like the look I like the way it feels that and I was like wow, he was really ahead of Bruce Bruce Willis was the other one that I think really is the ultimate pioneer. He kind of you know, badass. And just a great like, great advocate for for the bald, badass guy. He's Weaver's Die Hard. They have an eye. Under my I should say under my girlfriend's request, you know, we're stumbling around a few things. She goes, You got diameter, but without noting that right now, and I just thought, Oh, he is so different to every kind of actor in the way. I mean, like he smokes in airports in the late 80s. No one smokes in airports, like, like Bruce Willis, you you go back and watch Die Hard again, you can just see that every scene is him rocking up. And he's got the biggest stick in the room. He is just, he is just oozing confidence is something but he's not. You know, that's not just a fluke for diehard you can you can see that in every field. Absolutely. And where that comes from? I have no idea but yeah. Great, cool. Yeah. Bruce Willis. I think even in those I think in the first one, he was kind of hanging on to there. He's always been. But you don't think about it. And then and then I just saw because I think about Bruce Willis. And I'm like, oh, man, he's got like, Great shaved head. I mean, looks awesome. And then I think I recently was on again on a flight and diehard was on there. And I was like, Oh, he's got here. He had hair in that hanging on? Yes. He had like kind of Jude Law hang up, but yeah. Somehow they go to the same bar, but it's like a secret. Yeah. Yeah. Listen, Pete it's been great talking to you the fan of the product fan of the brand. So we'll leave a link like I say over in the show notes where people can check it out and mantle CO and So, so sorry to interrupt but also in the UK, we're mantel men.co.uk. If you're in the UK, we can ship to you as well. Awesome. Alexei will leave some links over so people can find it. You got the forums over there, the community and like, you can have a look at all the other great products are happening over there. Hey, it was good. Thank you for having us or having me and, you know, let's stay in touch and I'll let you know when I'm over when I'm over there. And maybe we can meet up. Absolutely. It's been my pleasure. Thanks. Great. Have a great Friday. You too. Take me. How about that? Thank you, Peter. And we'll put all the links over on the show notes over at men's West outer coat at UK. Make sure you're following us on social at men's wear style. We'll keep you updated with articles, blogs and podcasts like these. And if you like what you're hearing, why not leave a review on iTunes. It does help to keep the lights on around you. Okay, that is it for me. Until next time.