The Menswear Style Podcast

James Read, Tanning Expert

November 26, 2020 Menswear Style Episode 99
The Menswear Style Podcast
James Read, Tanning Expert
Chapters
The Menswear Style Podcast
James Read, Tanning Expert
Nov 26, 2020 Episode 99
Menswear Style

James Read has loved self tan from a young age. He would spend time dreaming up new innovations and thinking of interesting ways to avoid tanning faux pas. He has been in the beauty business for over 19 years and there aren’t many roles he hasn't played; from working with celebrity clients to becoming a worldwide Tanning Ambassador and launching the first ever stand-alone Tanning Studio. James quickly became a recognised influencer in tanning trends worldwide, as well a regular judge for several prestigious beauty awards. However, despite it all, it was always his dream to pour his passion, ideas and industry secrets into his very own brand. James Read Tan was built on a completely unique concept; combining the benefits of luxury skincare with a natural golden tan to suit all skin tones. The mission has always been to change the world’s perception of tanning. His products are effortless to apply and are all about making your skin not only look amazing but feel amazing too.

In this episode of the MenswearStyle Podcast we interview Tanning Expert, James Read, about his vast experience working with celebrities and how he came to launch his eponymous brand. The brand was the first tan product ever launched by a tanning expert, first to introduce the category of self tan and skincare, and first to offer a translucent sleep mask. Our host Peter Brooker and James also chat about tanning misconceptions, how the Covid-19 lockdown has affected business, how having a glow can lift your mood, what products guys should use, the importance of continuous innovation, and when celebrities are customers. 


Whilst we have your attention, be sure to sign up to our daily MenswearStyle newsletter here. We promise to only send you the good stuff.

Show Notes Transcript

James Read has loved self tan from a young age. He would spend time dreaming up new innovations and thinking of interesting ways to avoid tanning faux pas. He has been in the beauty business for over 19 years and there aren’t many roles he hasn't played; from working with celebrity clients to becoming a worldwide Tanning Ambassador and launching the first ever stand-alone Tanning Studio. James quickly became a recognised influencer in tanning trends worldwide, as well a regular judge for several prestigious beauty awards. However, despite it all, it was always his dream to pour his passion, ideas and industry secrets into his very own brand. James Read Tan was built on a completely unique concept; combining the benefits of luxury skincare with a natural golden tan to suit all skin tones. The mission has always been to change the world’s perception of tanning. His products are effortless to apply and are all about making your skin not only look amazing but feel amazing too.

In this episode of the MenswearStyle Podcast we interview Tanning Expert, James Read, about his vast experience working with celebrities and how he came to launch his eponymous brand. The brand was the first tan product ever launched by a tanning expert, first to introduce the category of self tan and skincare, and first to offer a translucent sleep mask. Our host Peter Brooker and James also chat about tanning misconceptions, how the Covid-19 lockdown has affected business, how having a glow can lift your mood, what products guys should use, the importance of continuous innovation, and when celebrities are customers. 


Whilst we have your attention, be sure to sign up to our daily MenswearStyle newsletter here. We promise to only send you the good stuff.

Unknown:

Hello and welcome to another episode of the mens rea style podcast. I'm your host Pete broca. On this episode, I'm going to talk to James Reed, tanning expert and founder of James Reed tan. And I'm going to pull a short clip from the website which you can find by the way at WWW dot James read ten.com James return is the only tanning range formulated and headed up by a leading tanning expert with his unique take on self tan James was the first person to put skincare and tanning into the spotlight. Every product within the range is dreamt up by James himself, resulting in a concise edit of skincare rich, innovative multipurpose tanning products, which we like to call them tanning hybrids to suit all skin tones and types. So that interview of James to come and I really enjoyed it. James is a great talker, which certainly makes my job a lot easier. I learned something about tanning techniques and what the misconceptions are about tanning, a lot of takeaways for me and hopefully they will be for you. Also. Before we get to James, don't forget to check out the show notes at men's wear style dot coat UK and on the social app men's wear style. If you want to tell us about your brand, your journey come on the show. You can email us here at info at Men's westover.co.uk. Okay. Let's get to it. This is a good one. I hope you enjoy it. Here is that interview with James Reed tanning expert and founder of James wheat. Okay, well it's my great pleasure to introduce James Reed tanning expert and founder of James return. Morning James How you doing today? I'm great. How are you? Yeah, I'm slightly I was saying earlier. I'm quite tired. So my my my dog woke me up early. So I've been on like, three coffees this morning and already so I probably sound really what's the word enthusiastic and jump up and down as I'm talking to you. But yeah, no, yeah. Thank you for having me. You're more than welcome. Yeah, I've got a dog as well. And he likes to jump on the bed at about 3am cause chaos around about 6am. I run him around about seven or eight and then he's just out for the rest of the morning. Like, right the day is yours now like Great. Thanks. Yes, it's fun, isn't it? I like you, because I when I'm asleep if I actually make one like movement, and Holly thinks I'm awake. So he'll grab his toy and then just start, like doing this like, like, as if he's like walking over me for about 10 minutes with his towel. waggon It's like a kind of ritual. So I try not to move in the bed. Sometimes. He thinks that's a sign to sound awake. So it's like sometimes he's like lying there just looking at me. And as open my eyes. He's like, just waiting for me to wake up and pounces. But yeah, it's good to have a dog especially during this time as well. Like kind of is they good sort of spirit lictors aren't they like make you feel good move and make your mood feel good? I think dogs they are and they also get you out of the house when perhaps you I mean my girlfriend hates the cold weather. Yeah, she she spent about four days in the flat not moving on the first lockdown when we just go into. And I said like, at least for the sake of the dog. You gotta walk Roger. I mean, just yeah, go around the block and get some daylight woman. Yeah, she eventually awkward. Where it's nice because I think I love dog walking because she actually is just, you wouldn't normally go out for that amount of walks during the day. But actually, it's especially when you're locked in there kind of it's a it's a good way to sort of release and actually a good exercise really otherwise would be the size of a house. Yeah, same here. I mean, I The last thing at night I think is the best thing. So I've got to go taking that for a pee at the last thing of night. But I would never get up at half 10 or 11. Normally I would just go straight into the horizontal position. And just sleep Yeah, no, no. Yeah, no sorry. But no, yeah, I'm all about the dog. Well, James, I could talk about doodles for till the cows come home but for the for perhaps the the uninitiated, would you mind giving us an intro to yourself and how you came about James return? Yes, I've been in the industry for God 19 years now. So I work with loads of tanning brands. Through my career like as a tanning expert, or like you know, brands used to hire me to launch their products come up with ideas. And then I obviously stand celebrities at the start of a career so I sort of built my name up. I first started out as you can in in in Devon absorption Street and it's like little broom cupboard a bit like an EP is back in the day then with Philip Schofield where they had the broom cupboard on PVC so it was like a little broom cupboard and it was always like that. So when I was in like the press wrote about like knee tanning, they'd always write all the chains in depth and absorb strainers little cupboards but people used to come in and get tans and that's sort of built up my reputation sort of doing that doing tanning and then I launched my brand like nine years ago so people think oh, you know, how easy is it to get a brand but actually it's quite hard I went through like lots of disappointments to get to where I am now to get the brand to get an investor but yeah, and then obviously with any brand like nine years now for brands been going so a brand is very much like you you it's like a train you kind of stop off and you go up and down and but you kind of you still you find your way different because obviously the industry changes you have to move with the times also still be current and still be in you know Cray innovation and but yeah, no I love I love what I do and obviously a long time now, but I think this lockdowns help because obviously it's made me more focused. So I'm more focused on but I've got nothing to escape I've got I can't go to the shops or go shopping in Kingston or go you know, go my neighbours for a glass of wine or anything like that. So it's like very much like I'm stuck in the house. I have to work I have to focus so actually, I think it's on that side. It's been a positive good thing for me. Yeah. I think the lockdowns worked well for a lot of people it's kind of a deceiver 5050 I found people have even picked up a 20 day habit or they've just come out with a six pack you know it's there's no demonstrate. Yes, yeah. And I totally in it so also I find myself cooking more but the thing about being locked down as well though you kind of walk past the cupboard and my cup is like full of like crisps and chocolate and rubbish. He just had another packet of crisps so maybe just a one maybe two bad glass of wine is it too early? Anyone? I mean it's nine o'clock in the morning but I gotta get through this podcast with this guy so but you know the thing is that one thing I miss about a lot Dennis obviously tanning people obviously I can't tan in the moment um, and obviously shoots and the interaction meeting people and obviously talking about my products but obviously now that you've got the whole thing with zoom, and as you don't go now it's my job easier the same as well. Sorry, but it's the only time he barks at the doorbell. Yeah, no, um, my dogs are sick. Yeah, no, I think um, what was I saying? I think the I was gonna ask you about lockdown life in June how it's worked out for you in the business has I mean people aren't going on as many holidays if any? Yeah, it's we're encroaching on the middle of winter now you know? Is this like a peak time like a weird convenient petri dish for you and the brand I mean, I know the world on fire and upside down so yeah trendy to say the sort of things but yeah, has it had an effect on you that way? Um, well at first I was worried obviously I was worried about like you know, family members and stuff with Corona thing before work because I think gone and the days obviously I put work first I think about obviously more put my personal life but I think the work I was like worried whether you know how the brand's going to do in this times and stuff but actually we've been we've been up as in on sales because obviously people want to people it's all been about that kind of self care at home and looking after your skin looking after how you look and obviously the resumes there's you know, FaceTime and everyone's on you know, Instagram and stuff. So I think people are much more conscious about you know, how they look and they want to look good and even if they're at home, they're fitted down. First thing you do is you put a mask on or you you put some moisturiser on or you you put some self tan on because it just lifts your spirit and lifts you're not spirit but your mood your makes you feel good. And I think that actually people have always used self tan the self tan just used to be a Christmas Christmas for summer. And I think now tanning the centres and all around thing because people want to be tanned all the time because it you know if you feel tired or you You look tired, if you've got self tan on it just lifts it lifts your how you look so if you look good, you feel good, I think and I use tan all the time like I put it on last night and I just do it just to make myself feel good. And I think that's really important. For like for how you feel and really wants you and I think you're all beauty products do that for you. Yeah, I was going to ask for someone that doesn't tan personally if I wanted to get into self tanning and using your products. What are the what are the baby steps for me How would I go about doing I would say like start off with like a gradual tan by Especially guys like guys love. mists like water mists so like, I've got a product called rose glow h2o tan mist, he just missed it on the faces that could clear water. Also like an instant bronzer mist, she just spray on the face, the arms, so guys are much more into like mistakes and things that are very quick and easy. They don't want hassle, they don't want to be hanging around for hours on end waiting for a tan to develop or even even even having something that they can kind of they can't get dressed straightaway on they want like very a lot of actors. We just sent some brahmsian Miss to like Ryan Reynolds for his new film is filming. It's just done two films. So we sent him like 10 bronzy Miss and he uses it all the time. Um, and you know, a lot of actors love the product because you just missed it on. You put your makeup over the top when they're doing the film and then they just go straight, straight on set. And I think like you say tanning now is much more less about orange and looking unnatural. And you see you've got your graduate tans for your stuff, people that start up with self tan or you've got you go into your self tans a bunch of a darker that people are much more competent in using and then personalised tannins much more in at the moment. So obviously like adding tanning drops to like moisturiser and mixing it in your moisturiser and putting on the face so people can then decide how dark they want to go. So that people don't have to worry about looking too dark. So if you want to start off light, you just add like two or three drops if you go darker, you go more drops. And it's I think it's about like that personalised look that you want to achieve yourself without looking so obviously tanned where people just notice that straight away I think them days are kind of gone. And you want someone to say you look well, you look healthy, not oh my god to yourself. Yeah, who are you wearing? Is that who you were? Yeah, sometimes a dead giveaway. And I think I like the more subtle look. So when I've tan celebrities, when I did what obviously I'd kind of really well since this whole thing but I something some of them always used to say can you go a bit darker and was like No, because if I go too dark with you, like if you go down that red carpet, the first thing someone comments on the article is Oh my god, did you see that? tan? Yeah. Oh, and what you want is you want the tan to work as a background colour, like with your outfit and your hair and your makeup but you don't want it to overpower your whole look. Because it's the first thing someone will write about it with oh my god so and so was orange or so and so had the elbows or dirty feet or judgey hands with the weather tans applied properly. So I'm all about subtle talents. Really, that's my range is all about very natural looking glows rather than by full on self hands. Nice. Yeah, it's a it's definitely something that you pick up on if it's a job gone wrong. My girlfriend picks it out every time we watch a bit of Telly, you know if a guy's there and he's obviously got a bit of a block choice not he's just on the face and the kind of neckline is showing. Then she goes out just take a look at that. And at some for someone that I wasn't even tuned into that I'm now recognised. Yeah. And it's and it's just so glaring, isn't it when it's going wrong. So it's almost like it's almost like a good nose job. You want to you want to know that someone's had a nose job, but you don't want to have it completely in your face. Yes. Basically, it's about like, you know, you look at like some actors or actresses You know, when they've had like, especially acted like Hollywood actors like you, you kind of look on the new sailor they had anything. They look younger that they've if they've obviously had something done, but it's it's it's been done so subtle, you wouldn't know And yeah, I think that's the same as a tan you want it to look subtle. You want no one to guess. But But you still want to look healthy and still want to look good at the same time. So I think it's it you can either be overly tan and like you said if you especially with guys, if they overdo it, it's going to look ginger on the beard, it's going to go into the around the neckline and it's going to be build up. And I think that Miss bronzer Miss and water Miss are great because you just missed it on you do like a light layer, we're going to get a really nice glow, but you're not gonna cling to your hair. It's not gonna make you look unnatural. You're just gonna look healthy. And I think that's I think that's the way the world's going. It's like, people want to look good. They don't want to look to the point where people get what they've got what they've had done that, you know. Yeah. And I was gonna ask you, James maybe just dialling back to the very beginning of your career when you first got the products in your hand. So you've been in the business I think, say 16 years, but 19 Yeah, 19 getting old. But if anyone else is doing it, how old are you? 20. Very, very young. Age slightly in the face, but that's it. It's because the products moisturise and tan, that's exactly what skin and good to me. Go out and enter. But along the journey, when you did introduce James returned to the market. Yeah. Can you remember what those feelings were like? And how much the games the game has changed since then for male 10? Yeah, I think I was like the first ever time in the world by person, by 10, an expert. And we were the first ever brand that introduce skincare and self tan as a category in in self tan, and the first ever brand to introduce the whole translucent tanning with my sleep miles, which was like, at the time quite revolutionary. And I was sort of a bit snobbish when I say that, if I'm not saying in a real, like an arrogant kind of way, so not meant to be. And then, like the water tans were the first brand to do that. So it kind of people were, it was like, everywhere, I remember when it first launched, and it was like, you know, in the first year, and we've been in like three times in UK bowgun in American Vogue and loads of magazines, and I was overwhelmed by it. I was quite very young. Yeah, it was very exciting. And it was a great time. And I think as, as the years have gone on brands have come out, they've, they will now do the same thing, which is the skincare they now do the water tans, they now do overnight tan so it's then thinking about the next step, how to recreate the brand and reinvent yourself is like I always see it as like, like a pop star having like an album. And they've had like a really good couple of albums, and then they've had a really shipped one. So that's my grand shit. But it's like, well, they've had one that wasn't the best. And then all of a sudden night, you know, you think of people written them off, you know, they're gonna come back. And then all of a sudden, you kind of like, they bring out a new album, it's like everywhere. And they always said they read rebirth themselves. And it's like, I see that as like, my brand like that. It's like coming up with a new album, that's going to be like the talking point that everyone's going to want and everyone's going to want to buy. And then you have to mark it that album to the point where it's like, I see like, I was doing something the other day like with ideas. And I see it as like, it's like the best marketing tool was probably the 19th like Spice Girls like Simon Fuller. But with the band how he did it was he created individual characters, like Posh Spice, baby spice, ginger, spice, Scary Spice and Sporty Spice, but each person that a fan bought into each individual character, but they changed each time a lot. Oh, this time I like partial, I'm going back to genius spice. But the best marketing thing about that was the fact is that every person, the fan loved the whole band as a whole. So they still loved individual characters in the band, but they still like the band. So it's like a brand you want someone to buy into your whole brand, but you have to introduce them with a character first. So it's like you bring one product that ties them into that character. Like if you're, if you're on the go Tanner, or you're at hometown, or you're overnight Tanner, see it's like a character and then you then you're then creating, like, ideally, they then buy into your band. So it is yeah, it's about like now obviously Instagram. And obviously these changed since I was obviously started out because when I was out if your brand, your brand was in a magazine, it was like it's sold for a magazine and no one knew about your brand unless they picked up the magazine or a newspaper. But now it's like social media, you have to promote yourself and social media have to you have to, you know, get out there and I'm quite like people to think always talking rubbish. I'm quite shy personally, as I've got older, you become more shy, but when you have to obviously do what you have to do. And it's especially with Instagram, you have to be much more out there. Yeah, um, whereas before you meet a magazine editor, and you do like 20 death sides in a day and you you know, that was it, and that was it. And then, you know, next month, it'd be in a newspaper, and next month, it'd be in a magazine. And it was I enjoyed that. And I love the fact I met so many people in the outdoor industry people that award ceremonies for magazine awards, and that's all changed you don't have that now. So it's I missed that but it's much more about social media and so it's moving with the times and obviously having to adapt and obviously having to change your brand slightly and appeal to because obviously, it was only youngsters that use Instagram, but now everyone uses Instagram. So it's, you've got like follows for different great age groups and people. So I think yeah, it's about adapting and making my brand move with the times but also still being current on and bringing out a new album is gonna say only as good as your last album. Exactly, exactly. Yeah, so that is true. So it's like you're only as good as your last time if you tend to look dodgy, you know? Do tanning. Yeah. So I, I look at it like that. It's about how you market yourself and how you market your brand. And just little I just noticed, and I'm probably people that work on my brand, but we find it a little bit too attention to detail because I know it's every single thing. And I'm, well if you don't be quite irritated, yeah, no, I mean, some people would just sell, that's fine. But to me, it's about, like how you get a wow factor how you get the people to talk about it. Um, and unless it's new, and it's different, I always think I would never bring out a product of a journalist would never put in a magazine, if they're not going to write about it, then it's not worth bringing out because it's just boring if you're, if you're copying the same as other brands, and you think I was so and so said in the best of this, so I'm going to bring out the same product. And yeah, but no one's gonna, you're kind of not being yourself, you're following what else is doing? Really? Yeah, that's interesting, you've got to it's, you're imagining how you're going to be received critically, like you were, at the time when journalism was, you know, probably really, really want to get it into magazine. So that's kind of at your forefront of your mind, rather than going, I need to be current, and I need to be out there in a very saturated market. So I'm just going to put it out, even if it's not going to be, you know, ripping out trees, I'm just going to have to bring it out so that I can be new and in the market. Whereas Yeah, you're thinking of stuff that would actually just be critically received that someone would pick it up and go, actually, I need to do something with this and put it on the cover of something. Yeah. And also, like, Yeah, and it's like, I think like with any business or any, like, Whatever you do, like, you never look to the left, you never look to the right, you always move, walk straight ahead. Because actually, if you focus on what's going on the left and what's going on the right, you're never gonna find your own niche, your own market, because technically, you're too You're too obsessed with what everyone else is doing, you're actually just copying them, you're not actually creating your own unique selling point your innovation. So I try and like, you know, I'll see someone do something then obviously, because you have to see what competitors do. But then I'll think how can I do something like that, that you with a totally different spin. So if you're if you've got 10 products on a shelf, and you think all of them are the same product, but one's totally different in a different way, how does your stands out the most, because technically, all of them are the same, but yours is the same but not the same. You see what I mean? So it's got a totally different spin on it. Um, so it's trying to do stuff like that. Also trying to think of things. I try and do the unknown with self tan, but sometimes it works. And sometimes it doesn't. But I think you've got to take the risk or not. If you don't take risks in life, you'd like you kind of you'd be looking back in years to come thinking, oh my god, I wish I'd done that wish I wish I'd made that decision rather than actually. I just do it and and, you know, I, I act for put I think I've always been like that. I speak before I think even when I used to be working for like, when I worked for like retail jobs, I was always the mouthy one that was always in trouble. Like even at school, they always the one that the like call to the office or be told up. But yeah, no, I think I just had that newness about the, how big is the team now then James? God is see, they're my best that they he owns quite a lot of brands. So the company is quite big that as a manufacturing company, but who works on my brand? I've got I think I've got like, eight people work on the brand. And then obviously, the company have a whole there's 207 people. But the it's good because the team are great. They really understand the industry. And I think it's good to like have people you can bounce ideas off of. But also I think I like someone to say that you're wrong, or I think sometimes you're not no one's always right. And actually, sometimes I can think something's good. But actually, if you look back and you think actually maybe it's not. And if someone highlights that, I need someone to explain it to me and make me see it actually from someone else's perspective, rather than actually thinking oh, no, I think that's right. Yeah. And I think at the start, it was always like you beginning I was like, No, no, no, it has to be this way. I am one of those obsessive people where I will ring like someone like 20 times to get something done. If they say no, at the beginning, I will ring and ring and ring and ring until they end up saying yes. If I believe this guy away from me just say yes and get him but I have to do it. If I believe in something, I kind of just do what I have to do to get that to happen. And I think that's sometimes always, you know, 80 70% paid off a lot of times and sometimes there's some products that have never done as well as or one of them to be but I think that was just my The time your learning curve and how you go, and how you develop as a person, but also as a, your own creativity, because the end result is probably one. So I will turn it up I didn't quite hear, but I'll turn it up. I think I did like a really silent one. Oh, my God, I blame it on the dog. Holly? Yeah, I was gonna ask Oscar also about the celebrity factor. And I imagine and, and don't let me put words in your mouth. But it must be something similar to being a tailor where you can't always boast about your clientele. But as soon as it becomes public domain that, you know, so such and so are using your products, then it's okay for you to talk about it. And maybe you can walk me through that process. Yeah, I mean, I'm mentioning names of celebrities that use your brand, as it was a lot of the time like, because obviously, starting my career, I started working a lot of celebrities that kind of just starting in their own career, like Lady Gaga, and Rosie Huntington Whiteley. And any golden and ca was kind of like you follow the journey with them. So you're obviously developing as a as a Italian expert, I'm developing this Italian Expo, it's in my own industry, and they're developing in their pop careers and modelling and acting and, um, but then I, you know, sort of fast forward to my brand and stuff. When I hear that celebrities use the product, or it does, it does feel good. It's like that feeling as if to say, you know, great, obviously, someone loves the product, and people are using it. And also, it's like a nice feeling to know that we've not sent it and that someone's actually gone out and bought it, right. Which is another good thing. And it's nice when actually the best thing is like when you see like celebrity on the TV, or they're in an interview or something, they mentioned that they love the product, or they use the product. So to me, it's like trying to create things that that everyone would use, but also a celebrity with celebrity with love. And it is about like, you know, likewise, Chanel has always been so popular as a brand. And because of that I'm saying my brand Chanel, but always aspire to be like Tom foods and Chanel, because I think like Chanel was very much like, you know, when you see someone on the tube when people become cheap, and someone would get a compact out or like a lipstick, and it'll be Chanel. And actually, they feel they had that kind of zip that that it made them feel good to know that they were using Chanel, and I think with every brand wants to have that. But when people were much more about independent coffee shops, which I like more so Starbucks was very much like when it first came out, people used to walk down the road with a Starbucks cup as if they've achieved something. Yeah. And it was like it was a status thing. And same as Chanel stainless. See, you know, you could be any walks of life that you could go and buy Chanel compact, or you could buy Chanel lipstick, and it would make you feel like you're you're part of Chanel and you're to it just I think you one yeah, and you want someone to have your product in their bathroom, and to feel proud that when their friends go into the bar for me, so I didn't know you use seven. So how is it is it is it good? And I think that's where you aspire to you aspire for someone to think your brand is great. And actually, they're proud to have it on their bar for themselves show rather than throwing it under the sink. crashing me under the seat. flannel, the in laws are coming around. Get rid of that James Reed. Yeah, get rid of that bad. Yeah. You know, yeah, I think it's, it's, um, I think duty is about like how it makes you feel. And I think it's, but also with celebrities, they all want to look good. People, you know, celebrities have human beings in the same that, you know, they're just doing a job. They still use beauty products, they still want to look glowy and they still want to, you know, get their hair done. So it's tanning for everyone I say. But especially as we've all become a mini celebrity in our own right in our own little bubbles. I mean, we all create our own platforms, whether it's a podcast, an Instagram channel, or YouTube channel. Yeah. So we've all got like this image of ourselves that we want to project. And we own in a way we're all our own brand, aren't we? No. Yeah. So that way so that's john kind of round this very off, but we are all our own little celebrities, or at least we think we are so Louis is like if you even if you look at Instagram, it's like you see people posting stuff and everyone's proud to what they post and they're proud to, to look good and feel good. And we're much more about like it doesn't matter. You know, people are to be accepted for who they are and and like, like you say, it's like everyone's escapism to do a podcast to do to go in Instagram to post pictures to. It's their way of making them feel good. And I think that actually, also they should feel good in themselves, but I think it's a good it's a good mood lifter, I think. Um, and it's like everyone's like you say everyone can do their own business on Instagram. It's much more you know, about like you said, being your own celebrity. You create your own celebrity in your own little with your friends and your family. You are a dog. Like a dog. And by osmosis, my dogs now more famous than I am, he's got more fun. Well, I need to do one for Harley, then. Oh, yeah, definitely gonna get Harley. He's such a clever boy, though Harley's. Like, I was saying to you earlier, he was in a sad state at the vet for a couple of days. Because he wasn't well, we had a tummy bug, but we really missed him. Like, it just shows how much you love your dog and how much you miss them being around. But he's, he's just such a character. He's like, the stuff he does. It's like, he wants to be human. And actually, he acts like a human that he's no, but like, when we're out and like we go to the pub, he like, wants to have some of the beer and like know how to you can't have any beer. So it's like, he wants to do like he'll sit in the pub, and there'd be like a pain on the floor. it'll sit. We sometimes put them on our laps, which we shouldn't really do in a pub. But it was sitting on the floor and like cry for like an hour pointing that pain up that's on the floor. Yeah. Um, so yeah. So um, yeah, I think I love I love dogs. And I never thought I'd dealt with the laptop. So yeah, I haven't gotten into tanning yet. So he's not into black hair. It's got black hair. So I don't think tanning would really work well with him. And actually, probably I'd be done for if I put tan on dogs. Anyway, I can see that being a fall from grace, a slippery slope. Yeah, I definitely think so. Yeah. Oh, James, thanks so much for taking time out your day. It's been a real pleasure. Thank you for having me. Thanks for coming on. I do wish Harley a steady road to recovery. And for people that want to check out the brand. It's James return.com. You can find out all about James and the story. And also some great tutorials for men that haven't really embraced tanning is yet but want to get into it. And also the Instagram app, James 310. You can go there and follow your journey. Thanks again, James. No worries. Have a nice afternoon or morning and day. Yeah, I'll see you soon. Take care. Bye. Well, how about that, as you might have guessed, I could have talked to James for hours about posting photos about dogs on Instagram, and then captioning them in the first person. But another time another place. In the meantime, make sure you're supporting the good guys and head over to James Reed tan calm and treat yourself or your loved one to some quality tanning products. There we go. smacking the table. But well that's it for my end. Thanks for tuning in. If you like what you're hearing, leave a review. It does help our egos and until next time