The Menswear Style Podcast

James Eden, Founder of Private White V.C.

November 30, 2020 Menswear Style Episode 100
The Menswear Style Podcast
James Eden, Founder of Private White V.C.
Chapters
The Menswear Style Podcast
James Eden, Founder of Private White V.C.
Nov 30, 2020 Episode 100
Menswear Style

Private White V.C. is an iconic British menswear brand, committed to producing garments of the highest quality, all manufactured in its very own factory nestled in the heart of Manchester. Private Jack White was a true English gentleman and World War One military hero. Awarded the Victoria Cross in 1917, he returned to Manchester as an apprentice at the factory which now carries his name, eventually becoming its owner. The business, now owned and managed by Private Jack White’s great grandchildren, proudly utilises the finest British materials and craftsmanship, sourcing fabrics from local mills and employing traditional manual production techniques. The collection is designed by former head of Dunhill menswear, Nick Ashley and is directly inspired by Private Jack White’s wardrobe. With meticulous attention to detail, emphasis on high quality local materials and a classic aesthetic, Private White V.C. is a brand for the modern gentleman who demands integrity, style and durability from his clothing.

In this episode of the MenswearStyle Podcast we interview James Eden, Founder of Private White V.C. about the founding story of his made in Britain menswear brand he named after his great-grandfather, Private Jack White. The business is also the last remaining clothing factory in Manchester's Cottonopolis, once the centre of the cotton industry. Our host Peter Brooker and James also chat about what an average working day looks like, creating PPE for the NHS, brands that aren't transparent on where their garments are manufactured, and showing customers a behind the scenes view on social media.

Whilst we have your attention, be sure to sign up to our daily MenswearStyle newsletter here. We promise to only send you the good stuff.

Show Notes Transcript

Private White V.C. is an iconic British menswear brand, committed to producing garments of the highest quality, all manufactured in its very own factory nestled in the heart of Manchester. Private Jack White was a true English gentleman and World War One military hero. Awarded the Victoria Cross in 1917, he returned to Manchester as an apprentice at the factory which now carries his name, eventually becoming its owner. The business, now owned and managed by Private Jack White’s great grandchildren, proudly utilises the finest British materials and craftsmanship, sourcing fabrics from local mills and employing traditional manual production techniques. The collection is designed by former head of Dunhill menswear, Nick Ashley and is directly inspired by Private Jack White’s wardrobe. With meticulous attention to detail, emphasis on high quality local materials and a classic aesthetic, Private White V.C. is a brand for the modern gentleman who demands integrity, style and durability from his clothing.

In this episode of the MenswearStyle Podcast we interview James Eden, Founder of Private White V.C. about the founding story of his made in Britain menswear brand he named after his great-grandfather, Private Jack White. The business is also the last remaining clothing factory in Manchester's Cottonopolis, once the centre of the cotton industry. Our host Peter Brooker and James also chat about what an average working day looks like, creating PPE for the NHS, brands that aren't transparent on where their garments are manufactured, and showing customers a behind the scenes view on social media.

Whilst we have your attention, be sure to sign up to our daily MenswearStyle newsletter here. We promise to only send you the good stuff.

Unknown:

Hello, and welcome to another episode of The menswear style podcast. I'm your host people. And on this episode I'm going to talk to James Eden, CEO of private white VC. I'm going to pull a short clip from the website which you can find By the way, at www dot private white vc.com. Private white VC is an iconic British menswear brand committed to producing garments of the highest quality all manufactured in its very own factory nestled in the heart of Manchester. Private jack White was a true English gentleman and World War One military hero awarded the Victoria Cross in 1917. Private jack white returned to Manchester as an apprentice at the factory which now carries his name, eventually becoming its owner. The business now owned or managed by private jack White's great grandchildren proudly utilises the finest British materials and craftsmanship sourcing fabrics from local mills and employing traditional manual production techniques. So that interview of James to come. And I really enjoyed it. We talked about that unboxing video he published on LinkedIn some time ago about the hijacking of the word London which seems to be everywhere on every brand and really grinds our gears. Also the great work James has done this year with providing the NHS with the necessary PP gear they need. But before we get to James, don't forget to check out the show notes at menswear style Dakota, UK and on the social at men's wear style. If you want to tell us about your brand and your journey you want to come on the show. You can email us here at info at menswear style or Koto, UK Okay. Let's get to it. This is a good one and I hope you enjoy it. Here is that interview of James Eden, CEO of private white VC. Well, it's my great pleasure to introduce James Eden, CEO of private white VC. How are we doing today, James? We're very very very good. The sun is shining here in Salford man, it's nice. It's great overcast and it's it's pouring down rain but yeah, it's good. It's good here at the mothership the factory straddling the the banks of the river. Oh, well. Wonderful. Well, it's great to have you I'm pleased to be here duction to yourself, James and For the uninitiated. For those that haven't heard of you, what is private white and what it is that you do them? Okay, so, I am am James Dean. I am the founder and CEO of a private white VC. Private White was my great grandfather, jack White, who was awarded the Victoria Cross for his aerobics in World War One. After the war, he returned back to civilian life. And like all of his peers post, post battle, he or virtually all of his peers, he got an apprenticeship in his local Reiko factory. So back in the halcyon days of cotton opolis there was hundreds of thousands of guys and girls of all walks of life, working in textiles, in factories in raincoat factories. So he started as an apprentice, he worked his way up to become a floor supervisor, pattern cutter, General Manager. He then subsequently became owner, proud owner of the business for a few years, built quite a significant powerful, prestigious, Renko manufacturing Empire. Here in the northwest, he passed away prematurely sadly, in the 1940s, the business moved on into different guises owned and operated by different families. And I took a active involvement in the business a curious curiosity really as a as a teenager growing up, because the legacy of the business and my grandfather also great grandfather's heroics, both in battle and an industry I've always been, you know, I've always been talked about amongst the family even though my family's had no involvement with textiles. Since 1949, I believe. Anyway, so I was always I was always I was always taken by the industry. I used to work in this factory where I'm where I'm pacing around now when I was a teenager in weekends and holidays and while growing up, and then I I bought the factory probably 10 years ago now and then decided to, you know, create, curate our own identity, our own profile our own brand, which I named after my great grandfather. jack, white, VC, private white VC and the rest is all the rest is history, I guess. Wow. And tell me a little bit about the area please. Are you? Are you one of the last flag bearers in kannapolis? Is it there's not too many of you guys around in Manchester right now? No, I wanted one of the strap lines that it wasn't intentionally to us. It's just it's, it's just the sad reality or An Inconvenient Truth. We are the last remaining clothing factory in the world's first industrial city, which is Manchester so there's not. It's quite a shame, actually. I mean, I'm looking out over into the river. And I can just see high rise flats and cranes and loads and loads of speculative property developments going up and going up, which, I guess it's vibrant and exciting, and it brings certain, you know, attributes and positive to that to the city. But that said, you know, that the lamentable demise of industry, especially manufacturing textiles, is quite sad and poignant, but there used to be, as I said, hundreds and thousands of factories in and around this area, there was a real cluster and industrial cluster of factories. Whereas now, you know, we are the last one Sunday, which is quite Saturday, you miss out on, you know, what you really wanted, you really want a really vibrant, vibrant community of makers of Weaver's a finishes of seamstresses, a pack of cutters. You know, who, who would go to Vegas, if there was just one casino, you know, if there's if there was loads of people, that really vibrant sector would be great for us because, well, you know, we're basically we're trying to trade without really, without a supporting infrastructure. You know, whether it be you know, training or mechanics or pattern cutters or whatever it is, we're just basically it feels like we're banging the British made drum on our own in the area, which is which is sad and unfortunate, but you know, not gonna lose too much sleep over it because that doesn't get us anywhere. It going by the website, James it really does feel like a family business in many ways. You have like some of the people that work under your umbrella that have been there for a very long time. I think 45 years was one employee that's that's been working for the company. How is it fitting that happening? Under the one roof there is the cutting happening? The sewing the production? Oh, yeah, we had to put in it being a family man in business that absolutely i mean, in this industry, we tend to if you if you lost six weeks here, you'll lost the 16 years. It's really a you know, that that binary, so we've got quite a quite a low turnover rate of staff once they're in. It's a bit like Bella, Bella Godfather, it's very, very difficult to to emancipate yourself from from the clutches of this industry. So I mean, we so we have husbands and wives here we've got you know, grandmothers and granddaughters. We've got guys and girls, they've been here for Well, some pushing 50 years. So that's very admirable and we're very grateful for their, their their unflinching loyal service to your point about what it is that we do here. So we do absolutely everything here on site minus the weaving and finishing of fabric. So so the weaving of cloth we do using commission looms and what nearby nearby Weaver's primarily in the northwest so at the Yorkshire and Lancashire Huddersfield and such parts, but you know, the lion's share of what we sell at private white in our stores and online, probably 90% of what we sell. So yes, the line show that the clear majority is made here on site in saltford, and Manchester. So when I say made that means it's, it's designed, the patterns are cut here, the cloth is cut here. It's sewn, it's assembled, it's stitched, it's hand sewn, it's pressed, it's packaged, it's box that shipped out, it's customer service, it's all those things. So the we don't, we don't really do much in the way of outsourcing. And if we're outsourcing it, we'll be outsourcing to our couple of friends in North Hampton or our Kashmir specialists in in Scotland, but pretty much everything we do, we do. We do ourselves the best of our ability. But as I said, if it's not something we can do a footwear on it were well then we'll talk to our other you know, head banging UK manufacturers, who were who we know they will do a fanatical obsessive job in line with our expectations or requirements from a from a quality and sustainability and, and an aesthetic and an integrity perspective. Interesting. I'm curious James, what is your nine to five like, I know it won't be nine to five because it's a way of life but that the kind of day that you'll have Typically in the business and is a really rewarding aspect of the business that you look forward to. Um, I mean, I guess the routine is there was more variety and tree lockdown obviously. So as well we've got we've got quite a while we did have quite a vibrant retail arm in north in in North Mayfair and easily go down quite a lot to see customers the See look just see see contacts and meetings and whether it's international clients or stylists or whatever. So normally get to London, probably once a week once every two weeks, whereas that's no longer on the cards now. So I'm based primarily in in our two units, we've got a unit unsulphured where I'm walking now. And we also have a unit that we just set up in in in Glossop where we're manufacturing medical grade surgical masks. But in terms of daily routine, I'll get up about half five ish, something like that, how five, then I try and tiptoe down the stairs to avoid waking any of the three kids up, and I'll try and blast half an hour or so on the peloton. And which was a, which was an acquisition pre lockdown, actually, and it's actually been very, very good for me because it's getting a bit jolly in my old age. So let's do that exercise. And then I drive into central Manchester into the factory for about half seven. And then I'm here till probably six half six, to head home and embrace the kids who are dragging my wife mad either before, during or after tea time, and then it's bath time and bed for them. But at work it's it's you know, it's it's quite, it's always quite varied actually, there's always a lot going on. There's lots of lots of things to look at, there's loads and loads of things to improve, there's always things going wrong, there's always things that can be improved. I'm I'm more involved with the, I guess the marketing, the e commerce, the business development side of things. I'm very fortunate that I have the most brilliant team, not just on the the branded side, the commerce side, but in terms of the manufacturing arm. So from a production point of view, I am on the surplus to requirements I've got, I've got Mike I've got kashia I've got slavko I've got Ahmed I've got a I've got a team of just superstars who really run this place like like clockwork. And it's not really something that I have to worry about day to day, although I walk around several times a day, making sure we're making sure that I'm up to speed with what's happening, feeling any questions if anyone's got any problems or concerns. But mainly as you walk around, you're basking in the glory of how fantastic is that have such a such a vibe such a such a buoyant, kaleidoscopic set of crafts people that are making what I consider to be the best of the very best clothing that the Northwest can possibly strive for, in what are quite bleak, quite morbid, quite difficult time. So I'm very proud of what we have done and what we continue to do. Nice Well, I wanted to get on to the PDP stuff momentarily but before then I wanted to ask you a little bit about the brand London that seems to be hijacked or at least it seems to have been hijacked by a lot of other brands out there. And I'm an avid follower of your LinkedIn page I think it's it's a great place to go actually to follow the journey of yourself and the brand it's you know has its ups and downs and you can always watch it like homeland sometimes there's lots going on. But there was I haven't seen oh man but is that is that is it? Is it a thriller as a comedy that slapstick? What is it realer it's legit, you know, it's a juicy stuff most of the time. But I cannot say that I did enjoy the one in the one video where you did an unboxing of another brand and it was a trench coat. And this might have even been about a year ago now. And okay, and you've kind of unfold the product and then went through the care labels and everything seemed to be made in London you know pictures of Big Ben and and whatnot everywhere. And then once you can really lift the veil of what's going on you find out that it's actually made in Bangladesh or wherever, which is not to denigrate the work of Bangladesh but no fantastic i think i think if you're making stuff in Bangladesh, you know, be proud of it. You're making stuff in in the UK be proud of it. If you're not if you're making stuff in Portugal, you know, champion the heroics of the guys and girls doing beautiful products at Portugal. What irritates and inflames me is the deception or the attempt To deceive, I find it a little bit. I find it a little bit, unsavoury. If if it's you know, Harrington, London, trench London trousers or London or jacket, London, whatever it may be, you know, British style, you know, in equivocally, you know, British design, packaged in, in London, invoiced in London. So it's actually, you know, it's actually, you know, manufactured elsewhere. And I think, I find it, I find it, I find it what find it offensive, I find it misleading, I find it wrong, you wouldn't be able to get away with it in in other industries, you know, you wouldn't be able to have a hamburger that says, you know, 100% beef, but then on the small print, you know, you find its native force, and God knows what not. So I just I just think, you know, I think there should be some transparency. And I think there should be some, some, some laws and regs some regulations as to how businesses can and can't market their products. First of all, as I said, it's misleading. And second of all, from a, from a from a childish personal perspective. It I think it it it, did it, I guess it was, how can I put this? It calls into question the authenticity of brands, not just private, right, because there's loads of great people making things properly honourable and marketing them in a fair and proper way. And I do, I think it detracts from, from their efforts that detract from the reality of what's actually happening. You know, making making stuff in the UK is extremely expensive. It's extremely time consuming, and making stuff in France and Italy and portugal is is equally, you know, challenging or has its own challenges. But I just think that there should be some, there should be some some some rights and wrongs and there should be some, there should be some, some clarity as to what your marketing how you're marketing, especially when it comes to country of origin. So, I mean, there's so many there's so few brands, I should say that really do centre on production in the UK, because like you say, it is expensive, compared to the amount that you see very saturated now that, you know, pin the word London on everything. Who would you even turn to regarding this? Is it the British Council? Is it Parliament? I mean, have you even have you checked on a few sets? I probably I probably haven't done enough, I probably when I think about it, I don't believe in anything I don't necessarily have, I don't have the time to really start to really stop what wouldn't be to have spearheaded such a campaign? Who would I look to? I don't know, probably local, local politicians, but at the same time, it says priorities. Yeah, I think I think unfortunately, other people have got what they consider to be more important things to do. What I do find is our particular, our particular demographic, the guy and girl that we're targeting are actually quite sophisticated, they're quite discerning, they're quite knowledgeable, they're quite, quite inquisitive. So they're not necessarily seduced by, by a strap line of, you know, you know, footwear, London or, or London, England, or whatever it is, you know, that they are customers quite, quite eclectic, as cities got a ferocious appetite, to learn and discover. And so they, they they are quite thorough in their research and their investigative work, when it comes to understanding what a brand stands for, what the product is all about where it's been made, who's making it, what are the virtues? What are the qualities, what are the attributes of the particular product? So in that respect, our customer is not going to be easily deceived or misled. But that said, it does happen. Which is, as I said at the outset, which I think it's wrong and unfortunate, but you know, I'm not going to waste too much time or headspace over it. Because just the priorities. Well, I think the video is great. Did you have a much reaction to it? Because I know that I've Yeah. Yeah, I mean, as I said, it's funny. In life and business I have no, I'm not inclined to be disparaging or, or overly negative towards anyone. Actually, I just don't i don't like any kind of toxicity or negative thoughts or comments about other people. And anyone that's making things and marketing things, they've got the it's, it's challenging, it's difficult. But as I said, I just wanted to bring it to was a conversation that I thought I wanted to have with my, you know, community. I got a lot of, well, whether it's just because in my little, my little echo chamber, the people that that watch and follow me that that they are like minded staunch manufacturers or they like craft and they like people making things honourably and communicating it honestly. They were very very supportive. And, you know, there wasn't really any negative pushback, actually, because what I was saying, I don't really think you could argue with it. And I thought, Okay, I think people gravitate or at least I do to people that can actually be very lucid with what they're saying. So I mean, you this was like a stream of consciousness for you on Boxing, you did it in one, there's no edit points, there's no gonna cut to this cut to that. It was at 10 minutes of just straight to camera, rifling through the products. There's so many, so many influences and bloggers that just will just cut every sentence, you know, that every pause or more for, you know, get snipped. So you have like this weird kind of rapid fire snip edit of every unboxing video. It's just, I don't know quite what the appeal is for that. Because again, that's not as honest as you'd want it to be. You'd want like honest reactions, no matter how dumb down or crap they might be. You just want to really get to the nub of it, but anywho Yeah, I really enjoyed it. I recommend, you know, totally trawling through your LinkedIn page to find it like I have to do each time I need to afford it. James, if we can tap upon the work that you've been doing regarding PP, because I think I think it's really important. Again, I I joined this at the beginning, it was, I think early April, was or perhaps even before that, the letters that you were sending to local MPs saying, look, we have the facilities here, we can produce stuff for the nurse, the NHS, the care workers, we've got what it takes to push this through. It felt like there was a lot of friction, unnecessary friction that came along with this, maybe you can just take me to the start and and talk me for it, please. Well, I think at the at the outset of that what peak peak lockdown when when the world really started to come under immense stress and strain when the country was was was in a real in a real quagmire. There was obviously there was there was a, it was painstakingly obvious that it was a huge, huge issue with the supply chain of much needed PP domestically. And whether it was because it was there was no supply or whether there was an issue with the actual distribution. Either way, the the right people weren't getting the the equipment they required. There was some rather generic websites set up by the government inviting manufacturers to step forward, those that felt that they could manufacture at scale the kind of products that required. So that was what we did, initially, we filled, you know, take the necessary boxes submitted our name, company address VAT number, there's quite a generic bland form. But then quite quickly, I was quite amazed at how swiftly or not mature made us quite swiftly we were, you know, the phone rang. And we were invited for further discussions with the government. And then from there, it escalated quite quickly, largely because I guess, you know, when it comes to making things in the UK, it's quite a quite an intimate pond of manufacturers, there's not many. And so we are, you know, a long standing venerable, UK based manufacturer, they've got a demonstrable track record and infrastructure of making embellished complicated apparel at scale. And so it was quite clear that when the government we're looking for credible partners with track records with integrity, we didn't have to do that much, you know, schmoozing and demonstrating and all the rest of it. And so, conversations escalated quite quickly. It was, you know, several, it was actually a couple of months from initial conversation through to actual, you know, raising the purchase order and getting things rocking and rolling. Obviously, I would have liked it to have been a much swifter process. But if you put into context, just how deplorable the state of the country was just the you know, the stress the strain on public officials, on government, on civil servants on people that were, you know, fighting fire and scrambling to, to organise the country and themselves, it was, you know, they weren't on cliche, they were unprecedented times. And I you know, I believe that people moved as quickly as possible to get us to get us into, you know, ready for action as soon as possible. And, and we get, I guess, it was there's two kind of arms to what we've done. We've got a, we have it, we've we've we've leveraged off our existing infrastructure here and sold it. So we've got a, you know, quite an old glorious 30,000 square foot Dickensian mill, and where we've been manufacturing, medical gowns, surgical gowns, to complement the other apparel that we make under the private white umbrella. And then we've set up a Well, an all singing all dancing, pristine, modern, fully automated surgical mask and mask, surgical mask manufacturing unit that's making 10s of millions of masks, all exclusively using British made materials for the department health and social care. So yeah, very, very proud very well, very proud of what we're doing, continue to be extremely impressed and taken aback by how fantastic the team are here. Who do? Well, all the work we do all the everything actually to pull together all the products that we make. So yeah, I mean, we were very fortunate because there are other I'm also mindful that there were lots of other manufacturers domestically who were equally keen, desperate needy to keep their machines their manufacturing business alive. Because that was that was the main concern, you know, it wasn't when, at the height of lockdown, I wasn't concerned about all of that manifest or, you know, I can you can you can dodge those bullets, you can deal with those sorts of issues. Where I was racking, what am I going to do about my factory? How am I going to keep this, I'm going to keep the fire burning, because you know, what goes up quickly, comes down quickly, factories take years and years and years and years years to develop, to refine the, you know, the skills, the supply chain, the materials, everything, it's really quite a complicated, intricate set of set of set of links. And so the idea of, like there of dismantling it, mothballing it for a couple of weeks, a couple of months, was was almost too hideous to comprehend. It's a bit like, you know, if the band break up, you know, getting them getting all the different individuals back on tour becomes prohibitively expensive or complicated. It's just not viable. So I was desperate to keep the machines turning and to keep to keep everyone here, in, in working in gainful employment. And that's what we're able to do, fortunately, off the back of these contracts. So we are very, very grateful. Well, thank you for your service, James. I mean, it's, it's terrific what you've done. So I mean, it's, it's, there's only a certain amount of people that have the firepower, I guess, in terms of production that can actually put something like this together. So you know, I know it. Yeah, it does keep the lights on for you. You know, like you mentioned, other people were scrambling around trying to get the same gig. But again, there's even the people that could have been trying to do it might not have done it as efficiently as you did. So it was a fascinating story and seeing it all unravel on LinkedIn. Again, it's, I don't know if you let everybody into your LinkedIn page, or if they have to be accepted, but it's a good place to know. I'm quite promiscuous on LinkedIn. Anyone? Can anyone could join? So I have no no standards, there's no file with me. Well, I do recommend people look at look you up and get involved. Do you enjoy social media? And you know, that those those platforms? Is it something that you like doing or is it like, unnecessary? Yeah, I mean, I'm not. I'm not I'm not sick of a premise because I'm not overly promiscuous on on social media. I don't have I don't have a personal Twitter handle. I don't have a, you know, my weapons of choice or Instagram, because I'm quite visual and like, seeing what other brands are doing and all the rest and and, and occasionally, I, I like to post on LinkedIn, as you as you well know, I'm not I'm not, I'm not as disciplined as I should be. I don't really have. I don't, I don't have any kind of like ruthless determination to grow and engage follower by 10 X a month, whatever it is. I think it's, it's got its pluses. It's got its, it's got its shortcomings. It's a fantastic. It's a fantastic tool for us, as a business. Because it allows us to talk to guys and girls that want to be spoken to by us. And it's got there are things I don't like about it, but we don't have to go into that. But I think on the whole it's a it's a I can't imagine sadly, I can't imagine life without social media can't imagine business without social media. It's a it's you know, it's it's the new reality that it's not it's not it's not going anywhere other than becoming more entrenched in our in our in our daily and professional lives. Well, I hope that you continue along the path of having the behind the scenes footage and the you know, the talks of the camera and stuff like that because I feel the bigger businesses get the less intimate they really want to be I mean, you don't see the likes of Tom Ford jumping on, it isn't going as well, I think about such and such. You know, I'm not saying that everyone should be doing that, because you know, there's enough of us doing that anyway. But it does have that it, it brings the audience, the consumer, the community closer together, if there's someone within the company kind of doing that, and showing us around and showing us how, yeah, I can believe that I've had people like, people like that. I think people would like to see what goes on behind the scenes, the lack of transparency, the lack of accessibility, I think what people like about, if they like anything about me, they probably and probably why they like the fact that it's, if anything, it's extremely authentic. You know, they don't, there's nothing. You know, when it comes to marketing, we don't really do much in the way of marketing other than the fact other than just tap, we just tell people what it is we're actually doing. You know, we just tell people about the fabric, you know, the fact that it comes from it comes up the road, you know, we've got to, you know, that probably 90% of our raw materials come from a 3040 kilometre radius of the factory. So we don't make it up. It's not it's no, it's not, it's not a, it's not a plan that I've been devising for years near the end that we're now executing, which just so happens that our supply chain, it's, you know, it's all regionally sourced, we tend to work with the best Mills. It's like Darwinism, it is the most extreme, you know, the weavers that we're working with, are the best of the best. And they've been around. Yeah, exactly. So. So yeah, to your point about social media, we just I just, if we've got something I want to say, I'll just get up and say I don't necessarily need to lean or rely on, you know, flashy editing or graphics, all the rest of it. It's quite, it's quite, unashamedly authentic. Some people like that lots do and other people don't I get all sorts of keyboard warriors. You know, giving me digs and telling me what I found. But you know, I've had that all my life and no doubt that'll continue. Well, you know, you've arrived in life if you can't please, everyone. That's what I think. Yeah, yeah, you're right. And also, was he was it private, white VC that did an advert saying they're not doing any Black Friday sales last year? Yes, we did. We did that. So that was I mean, yeah, we well, we, that was a position we took a couple of years ago, you know, times have changed, we're all evolving all the time. And that's one of the one of the one of the, one of the the challenges of running a business one has to take decision, some very, very easy, some are more difficult, more challenging, you know, we do have to be extremely commercial, as a business we've got, we do have, we do have limited resources, we do have limited space, in our warehouse, we do have, especially at the moment, we do have certain stock lines that that aren't quite selling, as well as perhaps we would have liked to have done whether it's a result of COVID, or we got the wrong colour palette, or whatever. And so there are there are occasions, depending on what, what the commercial constraints are on the business where you do have to bob and weave and adapt. And if it's Black Friday, or cyber weekend or doing a, you know, a promotion, at some ad hoc time during the year, these are the things that all businesses have to have to have to consider. And we're no different. So we're still formulating our opinion as to what we're going to do, if anything next week. But ultimately, it comes down to what what are the needs of the business? You know, it's very, very easy. I've been, you know, over the years, I've had a particularly particularly idyllic view of life and promoting and selling and marketing and pricing. But ultimately, you know, you've got to get real, if you've got too much stock, and you're and you you don't have the and your your caches constrained well, then you've got to do something about it. So yeah, well, James, I could talk to you for hours, but I want to be respectful of your time you've got bigger fish to fry. I should say people can check out the website private white pc.com and have a look at all the wonderful, wonderful coats. I saw the Donegal co the Simon Crompton collection, the bombers in particular, I really gravitated towards and as well as LinkedIn, James Eden they could they could pick a folly there and Instagram as well, private white VC to follow the journey. James, thanks so much for taking time out to speak to us. Now. Thank you so much, Tommy, Peter. Great. Take care. All right. Thanks. Cheers. Thanks, mate. Well, how about that, as you might have guessed, I could have talked to James for hours about LinkedIn, and unboxing videos. But another time another place in 3d to make sure you're supporting the good guys and head over to www dot private white vc.com and treat yourself or your loved one To a good looking British made Garmin. That's it from my end. Thanks for tuning in. And if you like what you're hearing, leave a review it does help how he goes and until next time