Menswear Style Podcast

David Boyne, Managing Director at Bravado / Music Merch

November 09, 2020 Menswear Style Episode 94
Menswear Style Podcast
David Boyne, Managing Director at Bravado / Music Merch
Show Notes Transcript

Bravado are Universal Music Group’s merchandise and brand management company, and have joint curated RS No. 9 Carnaby with The Rolling Stones which recently opened in London. Bravado lives at the crossroads of music and fashion. They understand the power of smart merchandising, and they know how to create products that spark organic, emotional connections between fans and artists. Their world class capabilities have made them the leading provider of consumer, lifestyle and brand management services around the world. With teams in 40 countries, they create a tailored approach for every project — from creating new spaces in the market to bringing an artist’s creative vision to life. Bravado is about building brands and legacies that live on, beyond the music.

In this episode of the MenswearStyle Podcast we interview Bravado Managing Director David Boyne about his 25 year experience working within the fashion industry. His recent big project was with The Rolling Stones for the new RS No. 9 Carnaby store located on London's historic Carnaby Street. Our host Peter Brooker and David also chat about how Covid-19 affected the store launch, the huge press coverage received, how the 'tongue logo' became so iconic, and the inspiration behind the store displays, art, music and experiences.

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Hello and welcome to another episode of the men's Weststar podcast. I'm your host Pete Brooker. On this episode, I'm going to talk to David Boyd, Managing Director of bravado in the UK. And I'm going to pull a short clip from the website which you can find@bravado.com bravado lives at the crossroads of music and fashion. We understand the power of smart merchandising and we know how to create products that spark organic emotional connections between fans and artists. Our World Class capabilities have made us the leading provider of consumer lifestyle and brand management services around the world. With teams in 40 countries we create a tailored approach for every project from creating new spaces in the market to bringing an artist's creative vision to life. bravado is about building brands and legacies that live on beyond the music. nicely put. So that interview of David COMM And I really enjoyed it. And as I mentioned in the podcast, I get to take many trips down memory lane with David talking about bands that I love. And we also dive into a bit of history and how early days of merchandising got started. Plenty of takeaways, and I can't wait to play this interview for you. But before we get to David, don't forget to check out the show notes man at men's style, Docomo, UK, and we're on the social app menswear style. If you want to tell us about your brand, maybe you want to come on the show and tell us about your journey. You can email us here at info at menswear stout agudo. uk. Let's get to it. This is a good one. I hope you enjoy it. Here's that interview with David boy in managing director of bravado in the UK. Great. Well, it's my great pleasure to introduce David Boyd, managing director in the UK for bravado. How are you doing today, David? I'm doing very well. Peter very well. Thank you. Well, for those that can't see the zoom call. David is set in front one fantastic background, probably the best phone that I've seen on a zoom call so far. So maybe you can explain it for us. Please. David is now I've won an award before him started Peter. And the shot in my background is Rs number nine Carnaby which is the Rolling Stones store that we opened up three or four weeks ago. It was an amazing experience that the press and media reaction to it was, was fantastic. for quite a long time in the planning in the making, but but a great project to be involved with. Perhaps For the uninitiated, we can just start with a thumbnail sketch of you please, David, and what is bravado, please? Yeah, I mean, just very briefly, Peter, my background is is fashion. So I've spent sort of 25 years or so working at Timberland and French Connection I was in the jeans business for some time. Most recently I spent seven really happy years at Ben Sherman is MD in the UK business. So work for some really good brands. And then about 10 years ago bravado came calling and I thought a move to that fusion of sort of music and fashion would be really interesting. So who are bravado, bravado are owned by Universal Music, which is the biggest music company in the world. And we are in essence that the merchandise arm for universal. So we have an incredible roster of artists. I've mentioned the Rolling Stones already. But alongside the stones from a heritage perspective, we work with Queen we work with elton john, Guns and Roses, Tupac etc. some amazing iconic artists, but some brilliant contemporary artists as well. So currently there is activity with Ariana Grundy, Billy Eilish has been incredible for us. The Vamps shore Mendez, I could go on and on but but we work with those artists and we look after their merchandise rights. And in essence, we have four channels of distribution. So where our business began was selling product, live events when you went to a concert and you see the merchandise that's what we do. Although obviously that's pretty quiet at the moment and I'm sure we'll we'll come on to that later. We also sell into retail and literally in the UK from Selfridges to Primark, we have great relationships with these guys. So when you go in and you see music merchandise, that that will probably be from bravado. We do licencing deals. So we work with some really interesting third parties, people like happy socks, people like Dr. Martens to bring together artists and brand collaborations. And the fourth element is ecommerce. So we look after about 70 web stores for our artists. Selling obviously directly to, to their fan base. So that kind of, in a nutshell is what bravado on what we do. Thank you. But that all sounds quite the job. I mean, there's a lot of stores, there's a lot of clients and a lot of different I guess umbrella brands within the within the merge itself. So you don't just have like t shirts or sweatshirts, you have kind of offshoots from that, perhaps we can just have a look at the one that you've launched in Carnaby Street. So that is a dedicated Rolling Stones one. And yeah, and yet, what was the stepping stones to getting this launch, please. So I spent, we've done lots of pop up stores over the last three or four years, Peter, and that that's for a whole range of artists from Billy Eilish to Kanye West, and everyone in between. But we started talking to stones management probably Now a couple of years ago. Obviously, they've got a really rich history, but perhaps starting to sort of look forward and have a look at sort of the future and some sort of legacy projects. And certainly a standalone retail store came up as being something that was really interesting and could be very relevant. I suppose the first port of call was where would we want the store, we looked at airport malls, we looked at sort of different shopping malls, but it kind of kept coming back to Carnaby Street, just because if you look at that rich, rich history that started off in the 60s, and, and later on with the 70s, we sort of take sex and village gate and Lord john, and all of those really cool fashion stores that kind of started the fashion business in the UK. And the fact that it was frequented by Bowie and by the who and by the stones, it just kind of felt it was it was the ideal venue for for the store. And then obviously, we work really closely with management and the band to put together all of the plans, ideas and designs. That's both the design of the store, and also product design as well. And it's really important for me that that there has to be a real sort of integrity behind the store. And it has to really reflect the band's DNA. So throughout the whole of the process, both the forebear members and management really are heavily involved in the store. And I think that's really important. So progressed along, obviously, sort of COVID is put a little bit of an obstacle in the way, certainly one of the really disappointing elements that we couldn't have perhaps the really big launch that we would have liked under under normal circumstances. But on the ninth of the ninth this year, it's a nine Carnaby that's why we keep coming back to the number nine. So on the ninth of the night, number nine, Carnaby was opened, the press we got was really quite incredible. And I talked about it quite a lot that I think at a time that there's quite a lot of obviously negativity around Peter, I think both the press, and lots of people within the world of retail congratulated us that coming forward with such a positive story, in such a kind of challenging time was really quite powerful. So the press coverage that we got was ridiculous, both UK and internationally. And the stores been open for four or five weeks. And it's been a brilliant project to be involved with. Fantastic. Well, I implore people to go down and Carnaby Street and to see the actual space itself. And if nothing else, have a look at the incredible display units that you have on the front of the shop there. So maybe you can just talk a little bit about the process of how you got the window displays and some of the layouts. Yeah, sure. I think when we open the store or in planning voting in the store, Peter, the two elements in our mind were a we wanted it to be a boutique II store a little bit cool, a little bit perhaps of a journey for the customer to explore and discover things. But the second thing, and retail, you talked about it a lot at the moment, we wanted it to be an experience, we wanted to be really experiential, we wanted the fan to really engage. So I think you highlighted on the shop behind me, you can see there's a unique architecture of the opening bars of the stones hit painted black, which is really cool. And there's also an oversized tan logo that I'm sure most people be familiar with is the logo of the band that's been around since the early 70s. In fact, it was designed by a guy called john Pash. And john has actually done some sketches of the tongue. And they're in the store and available to buy, which is very cool. And then other elements of the store, we've got an album cover wall coverings in the fitting room. So that's really quite, you know, exciting. And then one of the key things we wanted actually when you walk through the door, there's an incredible visual impact. We've got oversized media screens at the back of the store. And we work with a company called treatment studios who actually do all the footage for the stones live shows. We got them to put together an amazing video of about 30 minutes of content of the band throughout the years. There's some great sort of animated graphics, but more importantly, just a great footage of the band both playing live and sort of various different documentaries. And it's just a great as I say impact of as you walk through that the screens hit you. One of the other elements that's really important as well. It's all about the music. So just a couple of stories to share with you. Firstly, we work with the premium British speaker brand, Bowers and Wilkins. And they've supplied all the equipment for the store. And it's really important that when we're playing the stones music in the store, that the quality is of the best possible, you know, standard that we can achieve. And I think we've done that. But the other thing that we did when we opened up on the ninth of September, the band had just released their remastered version of goat's head soup. So what we did actually, we as I said earlier, we're part of Universal Music. So we work very closely with the team at Polydor who's the label that Rolling Stones label, they actually produced a Rolling Stones red vinyl version of goat's head soup, the only place you could buy it in the world was our RS number nine Carnaby store and online. And actually, it created a great amount of buzz on opening day. So it's really important stuff goes back to the music's, although I look after the merchandise element of the business, it's really important goes back to the music. And then just very quickly, just to finish off the journey in the store, we spoke about sort of experiences is an amazing class floor. So and we've got all sort of vinyl lyrics and song titles from the stones, obviously. So that kind of really brings it to life. And then you go downstairs and there's a mirror room, and also a sound room with some amazing neon signs in there. So they've really a seven or eight elements of sort of discovery in the store that really gives you an opportunity for experience. And what's so important today gives you that photo opportunity for Instagram and social media as well. Peter, well, it's it's great that I think retail is now waking up to the fact that there has to be some kind of experience within shops because I used to run an independent fashion shop outside of Cambridge. And I would say to my partners all the time, there is nothing more boring than just seeing clothes on a concertina, there's no there's no real kind of takeaway value for people to come apart from try on the clothes, maybe. But it's such an ask to get people to go look, give up your time, come all the way down and just try it on and see if it fits you. Rather than say, look, we've got something really special going on here. I don't think you'll really dig not just what we're selling, but everything that you're going to be experiencing. And like you say it's going to be a real investment of your time to go down. And but you're going to be nourished by everything that you're seeing here. And it looks terrific. So absolutely. And I think just your point page, I think, you know, the challenges for physical, you know, stores, sort of bricks and mortar stores, is that because ecommerce is growing so rapidly. That physical experience needs to have that point of difference. And I think if you're just buying a pair of jeans or a shirt, you can kind of do it online. There's that convenience element to it. But I think to really experience that, that that that shopping experience, if you like I think bricks and mortar offers something different. But I think as you sort of alluded to the retail is almost got a responsibility to make that, that that journey and that shopping, you know, venture and experience that's enjoyable. And it's not just about buying a piece of clothing and queuing up at the tail end paying for. Absolutely. Well, I love the fact that you've got the drawings by john passion there. So I mean, this was a guy that I think he if I've got the story, right, and perhaps perhaps you'll correct me on this, David. They wrote, Mick Jagger said, Look, I need you to do something. And he showed him something by shell, and said, Look, this is kind of what I have in mind. You know, it needs to be very simplistic. And then he came up with the tongues. And it was like a protest statement that he was like, This is what the kids will be into, they'll be sticking their tongues out, etc. And then it kind of took off. And I believe john lennon kind of sold the rights to that. Like, I think he sold the rights for like 26 grand back to the Rolling Stones. So they now like have complete ownership of it. But it sounds like if he's still involved with the collaboration and doing some original sketches for the store, then, you know, they're still good friends for the sound of it. And I love that. Yeah, no, it's all good. And your store is pretty much spot on. I mean, as you say, sort of john designed at first back in 71. It was first used, it was sticky fingers, wasn't it? It was it was when it was first used. And I think as I said earlier, you know, we represent lots of artists and we work very closely with them. But I think something like the tongue logo that enables it almost. It's not just about being a great rock and roll band, but it's almost become a lifestyle brand in its own right. And we have lots of people who come in, that may not be the biggest Rolling Stones fans, they may not necessarily buy all the music, but they just they know that the tongue logo is just a very cool, exciting brand and they want to buy into it. So actually, what john Pash do in collaboration with with Mick Jagger many years ago has really stood the gap the band in very good stead for the years since then, yeah. Do you have the original during sex? I heard that they were in the v&a or these kind of interpretations and modern ones that he's done. Yeah, no, these are our sketches and paintings that john has done literally over the last sort of few months, specifically, you know, to be in the store to, you know, to give our customers, I think, what's really interesting band fans and love something that's limited or unique. So john just did 10 of these sketches, they're all numbered. And I think just the, the limited appeal of it, in itself makes them very exciting for the for the fan base to to want to acquire. Oh, that's terrific. Well, again, another reason to get down there and see these for Absolutely. David, is there any future for the brand? Are we looking to franchise this particular store? Are we looking to open up more stores with some of the other clients that you have under your umbrella like the Beach Boys? Will there be a Beach Boys store, etc? Can you talk about that? And I suppose the short answer is, who knows? I mean, obviously, we've opened up the store, as I say, there was a whole sort of an amazing, incredible feeling of support, as I said earlier, from from, you know, retail and from the press alike. I've definitely already had similar conversations with other artists, who are kind of saying, Is this an opportunity moving forward? I think, as you said, franchising could be an opportunity as well, I think really where we are, is, there's lots of opportunities, let's really understand how big that opportunities, you know, opportunity could be moving forward. And then you know, probably over the next year or so, we should start to have a think about what those opportunities could look like. And obviously, although I look after the UK business and and Carnaby Street is very much sort of, you know, centred around London, not just the stones, but many of the bands that we look after have a truly global reach. So we're not necessarily just, you know, limiting this to a UK opportunity. But what potentially could a store look like in New York, Milan or Sydney? It would look great. So really exciting opportunities. And then we shouldn't forget as well ecommerce. And it is interesting that with a with sort of COVID Peter that, that when we when we first opened the store, kind of we were very much about how do we bring the world to Carnaby Street to see the store. But obviously that's kind of flipped over the last six, nine months. So it's more about really, how do we take Carnaby Street to the world rather than how do we bring the world to Carnaby Street so actually ecommerce has become a really a part of our important part of our strategy for the store. And although the product is exclusive to Rs nine RS number nine Carnaby that that straddles both the physical store and our ecommerce store as well. So it enables people that particularly who can't get down to London or come to the UK at the moment, can still access the amazing product that we have on offer. Excellent and yeah, it's, it's pretty easy to do. I mean, I went on to bravado.com and just clicked through the client list and went straight through to the shops of the different clients had a look at the elton john merchandise, which I loved. Yeah, I do hope there is a Beach Boys store, though, because I love the fact that Mike love gets on stage and where's a Beach Boys cap? Like he's like, he doesn't really know what band is supposed to be in or something. But like this is, this is just him going. I am all I am a company man. I love the band. I love that match. Yeah, I'd love to see something like that happening. I will make a note just for Peter Brooker. Yeah, if we can get some mic love can come down and like an open it up. That'd be terrific. You've got an old fan. I have, in my little, my little mind. So how does it work with clients do? Maybe you might have a little bit of insight do? Do the clients kind of reach out to you? Or do you generally make the approach to artists and say, Look, you know, we're doing this over here? Would you like to come and join us? You know, this is an opportunity we can offer you kind of Yeah, what's what's the dynamic there? I think there's a mixture of things, you know, sometimes we'll have artists reach out to us, and particularly perhaps there are newer artists, you know, starting on their journey. But we've obviously got lots of experience and expertise within our a&r brand management team. So more often than not, you know, we whether it's a slightly more sort of mature act, if you like, that we want to go after we feel would be a great addition to our roster, or whether it's someone new that's coming on the scene that we feel could really again add value. We will speak to you know, usually their management team and start to share with them what we think we're capable of helping deliver. Being part of Universal Music definitely helps. We have a really nice internal relationship with all the labels you know, with EMI with the guys at island with the guys at Polly door. So that definitely helps. But I think I mean, we are the biggest music merchandise company in the world piece. And I think, you know, to me actions speak louder than words. And I think what we do in the marketplace, and it's not just you know, we keep going back to the Rolling Stones store, but our relationship with retailers. So I mentioned, you know, literally it goes from Selfridges to prime up but just this week, we've got an installation for Bob Marley in Selfridges, which coincides with his what would have been his 75th birthday looks incredible. And it's about being respectful, I suppose to his legacy, but allowing a new generation of fans to buy some really cool product, we've got some really great imagery in the store. So again, on a smaller scale that we've been talking about in Carnaby Street, but just a small opportunity to kind of experience what what Bob bought to the world through his music. So I think very much it's about what we can deliver. And that would attract hopefully, other artists to, you know, to our roster. Interesting. I was gonna ask a tangential question to that. Do you have any control or in terms of other people doing their own merchandise? I mean, like, so for example, let's take the Rolling Stones. So a very iconic logo and a very iconic brand. Do you find that other people are going well, I can just put this on redbubble. And I can print my own t shirts and stuff like that, does that kind of fall under your remit? Or is it somebody else going hold on? We got to keep an eye on everyone here, cuz they're all trying to take liberties with our licence? Yeah, so I'm official, counterfeit bootleg, you know, product is, is a challenge for us. And for the artists. I kind of suppose it started off many, many years ago with people selling bootleg t shirts outside of venues. But that's obviously become much more refined, particularly over the last few years, you know, via the internet. So we we we provide are actually part of an industry body, that we sit alongside of all of our competitors, and work collectively to try and take down both online, counterfeit product, and physical. So whether that may be in a retail environment, maybe doing raids on other printers, we work with legal guys. So there is a whole sort of team of people out there trying to work towards, you know, having a bootleg free sort of, you know, landscape, it's very difficult. It's very challenging, and you feel sometimes, you know, the more product you're taking down, the more is going up. But but it's something we're very aware of, we work very hard to eradicate the issue, although it's I'm not sure we'll ever get to a zero position. But it's very much sort of a continuing working progress for us, Peter. Yeah. I'm glad that you said that you have to collaborate and work alongside other people. Because I imagine if this was just your gig, or it kind of fell under your jurisdiction, your inbox, and your Google searches will just be 24. Seven, right. So yeah, we're particularly I mean, obviously, there's, there's other merchandise companies that represent other artists. And I think, you know, when you've got an unofficial site, any e commerce site, selling some of bravados acts and some of the other people's acts, I think, if we can work in collaboration and work together, it just becomes a much more powerful conversation. And invariably, we just get a more sort of positive result at the end of that, at the end of the day, you know, and David, do you notice also any upticks in terms of the merge when certain clients in your portfolio will have a film out? Or maybe a biography? So we had elton john recently doing Rocket Man and the Queen and Freddie Mercury story? you kind of see these coming down the pipe and going, Oh, this will be fantastic for us. Yeah, yeah. It's almost like we'd rehearse this, Peter, because I think the queen of example, is an incredible example. So we've worked with Queen management for many years, we have a great relationship with them. But what happened about Bohemian Rhapsody a couple of years ago, has taken the band to another level. So we had I spoke before about what we've done with pop up stores. So we actually had a pop up store towards the back end of 2018. When the film came out, and it was open for three months, it was some pop up activity that we do is very short term, it literally may be for two or three days, it may be around the release of a record. And it may be honestly about more perhaps a marketing exercise than from a revenue perspective, which is great. But actually the Queen pop up store with was both It was a great marketing opportunity. But but the it was financially really, really successful. And like I spoke earlier, we made sure that there was kind of a journey there. So we had Roger Taylor's drum kit downstairs. We had a tattoo artists downstairs doing Queen tattoos. We work with many to suit so we had Fred, his wax work model in the store. So they have some really, again, cool elements within the store. But it was super successful. However, on a wider scale, I think the film didn't just kind of absolutely rejuvenate the band from us from a merchandise perspective, but it really access to a younger generation. And when we'd get people coming into the store, you know, 1819 2021, that knew a lot of the Queen songs, but didn't really know that they'd been sung by Queen and they didn't really know who Freddie Mercury were, which I find quite incredible. But you know, it's a different generation. But so there was a real education that went on. And since the film, as I say, there's a, it's not just sort of that slightly older audience that has been, you know, followed Queen for their many successful decades. But a younger audience that's really buying into the product as well. So I think, to answer your question, yeah, absolutely. When there's major activity, like a film, and both Elton and Queen are great examples, it really does raise sort of the awareness of the band. And that's only a good thing for, you know, for bravado, and therefore the artists as well. Yeah, that's interesting. I hadn't actually really thought about that, in terms of the queen. I mean, I'm, I'm old enough to remember Freddie Mercury dying, but we're kind of in a generation now, where those that's perhaps lost on people because obviously, they weren't around to live it. I do remember my uncle Graham asking my dad because then to work together in in construction. And he asked to take the day off work so that he could go to the funeral. And I grew up thinking that my uncle Graham must have known Freddie Mercury to go to the funeral. But of course, it was a public parade. And it's interesting, you know, because, you know, the band has been going longer, since, as you know, sadly, Freddie's death and they were beforehand, but it's interesting. I was, I think it was last year, I saw them in New York, obviously, with Adam Lambert as the frontman, frontman, and they still every song is a great song, every song is ahead. And it's still a great band to watch. And you know, and I love being involved with and it's, and just to say that whole sort of, you know, rejuvenation, if you like, over the last couple of years have been great to be part of it. I think there would be a great idea to get a queen store up and running. Kind of like a little caveat to, to the Rolling Stones, ones that you got there. I mean, yeah, who wouldn't want to come down and see what's going on in the Queen store. I mean, they had the We Will Rock You as lucky enough to go see that. It doesn't feel like a band that really wants to leave any money on the table, either. It's like, well, if there's an opportunity, then why not? Yeah, we've kind of got to make the most things. That also talking about bands and artists bringing younger generations together. You said you had Billy Eilish on your books handling the merchandise for that. So she's obviously got the new no time to die single out for the James Bond film. I mean, was she already on your books before then? And then she was announced or the other way around? How did that work? Yeah, no. And Billy Eilish has been working with bravado, probably, I'd say for a couple of years now. And it, it was quite incredible. From my point of view, how she went from fairly sort of low awareness to becoming overnight, she absolutely exploded. Although, you know, I don't know barely, personally, she's managed by our brand management team over in the US. I think, you know, she always just comes across as such a woman in charge of her own destiny. And although, you know, we've done some really great projects with her. And this is actually isn't just for Billy Eilish, this is for everyone. But it's really important that the bands that we work with are always in charge of what we what we do, it's their brand, and it's their DNA, and it's their persona that's being, you know, shared with the public. And Billy Eilish is very much one of those artists, it's very important to her that, you know, the image that she's portrayed is very true to what she stands for. Yeah, I have a quick note on her portfolio, because you can find all this on provato.com you can click through the artists and go through the merge. And some of its really creative so there's, I think it looks like a lie load but in her kind of slunk raise shoulder position. You know, these are these is really innovative products that really align in some quirky way with the artist or band. Yeah. And that's again, another important thing that hopefully we deliver for artists You know, I think you kind of alluded earlier that it's not just a T shirt anymore, not just a basic product so so literally you know, I always say to artists that that anything that has a merchandise of all value we would be interested in delivering so although most of our product is still driven by apparel, particularly sort of sweatshirts, hoodies, and obviously t shirts, we do lots of different product jewellery accessories, you've mentioned like pillows, you know, notebooks. stationary, you know, we've done some really weird and wonderful alcohol, skis, lots of different product categories. And I think that it's that, as you said earlier that that that creative design element that we can hopefully bring to the party that allows the fan base to really engage with the artist. That's awesome. Well, David, I really recommend people head down to the store. I'll be going down as soon as I can. But likewise, ecommerce site is also a lot of fun, because you can click through. I mean, there's just a huge plethora of artists that, I guess for our new life for me, I'm kind of I feel like I'm a bit of an old soul. And so I like the looks of the Jamiroquai. I like the looks of the Pet Shop Boys. And you can move around and feel like oh, yeah, it's always it's like a very nostalgic walk down memory lane for me. Yeah, I'm having a look at some of these. I was going to ask, Is there any chance that you'll be say, like, if I'm Joe Blow, and I come into the shop, and I'll be having a nose around the sections of the Rolling Stones that I might look over my shoulder one day and see Mick, just kind of pilfering through some of the stuff and making sure everything's in check. Who knows? Well, I supposed to give you a real life example of that. Ronnie Wood came down to the store literally last Thursday. You know, we were open for business. And he came in with, you know, with his wife, Sally. It's the first time he's been to the store. He absolutely loved it. Stop for some pictures. And actually, what was really cool. I don't know if you're aware, but Ronnie is really into his art as well. He produces some fantastic art. So while we were downstairs, we were next to that big. The Big Rig time you can see on my background, we've also got one downstairs. And he actually signed it kind of like rock and roll style. You know, Ronnie was here. 2020, which is really cool. So it's not just like an Instagram moment. Now it's a super Instagram. Let's say literally, that's a real life example where customers did turn around and Ronnie Wood was right behind them. So it kind of watch this space, you know, but it really does happen. Yeah, I love that. I went to Philadelphia last year and up top the steps were rocky does is run in the Museum of Modern Art up there. So I asked the girl said to sly Stallone ever come here. She goes, he was here last week. And I'm gonna set up camp. I'm gonna just stay here. So I love the idea that people will like, just walk in anonymously like that. Yeah, yeah. I think it's important. And it's interesting, you know, that artists are kind of like, you know, reachable and in touch with them. You know, we spoke briefly before about pop up stores. But I think it one of the things that I love about pop up stores, obviously music because so much of music is now streamed, it becomes you know, virtual and digital. But when you have a pop up store, you fill that and many of the pop up stores, you know, artists do do come to so we did one last year with slipknot and the band were there. We did one with a young blood and, you know, he came along and loved it. But I think when fans can really engage, whether it's either with the artist, or with the product, and there's something tangible and also interesting with each other, so when they're queuing up and some of the cues, the lines we've had the pop ups go for literally mouths, they've been bananas, but I think for fans to engage, as I say with products and each other makes you know our business really rewarding because they can engage in a way perhaps they don't in the same way with music because as a most of it is stream so so I think that ability to engage and and react reach out to you know, to the artist and the product makes it really quite, you know, quite a positive experience. Yeah, and you never really know what you're going to get as it were you were to come down. I love the fact during Carnaby Street David I just feel like this evokes a spirit of Carnaby Street. I mean I had the likes of so people that know the history of Carnaby Street know that it really like you say really was the bands that kind of spearheaded the movement and the subculture that was going on against Savile Row at the time. I mean, you had like the the Apple store as well. I'm not sure if that there might have been on the corner and they yet brand stores like pussycat union you do know several people who list when they hear you say the Apple Store. It was a very different store than the one that you're thinking of. Yeah, they weren't giving away free iPads. They were they were getting their logos painted over by the Council. That's what happened to that story. Yeah, later. But it really does kind of bring back that legacy and and how important that street is to London. And yeah, I'm so glad that you're bringing this to Carnaby Street and I think it's fantastic. So thank you, and I wouldn't you know, as I said earlier, you know, retailers have come up to me and said what you're doing at a tough time is is brave and bold and brilliant. And and it's really great that they're kind of appreciating what we've done. You know, is it a tough time for physical retail and, but it does feel like you know, really positive moves that, you know, all of us at Universal Music and provider we're very, very proud of delivering for, you know, for the band, you know, so the Rolling Stones. Well, I'm excited. Thanks so much for coming on and taking time out to talk about it. David, it's bravado.com is a place that you can go check out online, bravado USA, I've got an Instagram link so that people can check out some other options over there. In the meantime, take care yourself, and hope to see you soon. That's great. Thanks a lot, Peter. Thanks, David. Well, how about that the whole history of the Rolling Stones logo is just crazy as wherever you have a book in its own right. And I can't believe they've got the drawings down there at the store. So if you're in Carnaby Street, make sure to check that out. In the meantime, yeah, check out the website. Also bravado.com. Treat yourself or your loved one. Make sure you're supporting the good guys. And so thanks for tuning in. That's it from us for this week. If you like what you're hearing, leave a review. It does help our egos around here and until next time.

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