In a world of hyper-convenience and overconsumption L’Estrange London wants to strip away complexity from your everyday, allowing you to do more with less. Their modern clothing system comprises comfortable, timeless, versatile pieces that can be worn in multiple scenarios. They make clothes to look effortlessly smart for life - whether it be a coffee, a meeting, or drinks - never overdressed, never underdressed. This menswear brand believes the future of retail exists in creating more than just a regular store experience. With 'The L'Estrange Apartment' they collaborated with several different brands that reflect their aesthetic and ethos to create a home-from-home experience - a more relaxed space to explore their world and clothes.
The world is over producing, and the output of the textile industry has doubled in the last 15 years to 100 billion units per year. Most of this will end up in landfill and it’s being accelerated by our disposable mindsets and rapidly decreasing times garments are worn. We need to move to a place where we buy less and buy better. Season after season, traditional fashion says we should discard and buy more. Isn’t it time for change? L’Estrange London spend three times longer designing and testing their products, to create truly versatile and timeless clothes that do more. They design your clothes to last, and they want you to care delicately for them.
In this episode of the MenswearStyle Podcast we interview L’Estrange London Co-Founder, William Green, about where the brand name originates from and the story of how the brand was born, which began with a simple smart and stylish men's hoodie. After reaching out and sending samples to fashion stores around the world - and attending clothing trade shows - they were quickly picked up and stocked by the likes of Colette, Saks Fifth Avenue, Isetan and The Shop at Bluebird. With a product design approach to menswear, they don't follow the seasonal approach the majority of the industry abides by. This direct-to-consumer brand is on a mission to simplify the male wardrobe with comfortable and effortless clothing which can be worn for most scenarios. Peter and William also discuss sustainability and how the Covid-19 pandemic has affected trading for L'Estrange London.
Whilst we have your attention, be sure to sign up to our daily MenswearStyle newsletter here. We promise to only send you the good stuff.
In a world of hyper-convenience and overconsumption L’Estrange London wants to strip away complexity from your everyday, allowing you to do more with less. Their modern clothing system comprises comfortable, timeless, versatile pieces that can be worn in multiple scenarios. They make clothes to look effortlessly smart for life - whether it be a coffee, a meeting, or drinks - never overdressed, never underdressed. This menswear brand believes the future of retail exists in creating more than just a regular store experience. With 'The L'Estrange Apartment' they collaborated with several different brands that reflect their aesthetic and ethos to create a home-from-home experience - a more relaxed space to explore their world and clothes.
The world is over producing, and the output of the textile industry has doubled in the last 15 years to 100 billion units per year. Most of this will end up in landfill and it’s being accelerated by our disposable mindsets and rapidly decreasing times garments are worn. We need to move to a place where we buy less and buy better. Season after season, traditional fashion says we should discard and buy more. Isn’t it time for change? L’Estrange London spend three times longer designing and testing their products, to create truly versatile and timeless clothes that do more. They design your clothes to last, and they want you to care delicately for them.
In this episode of the MenswearStyle Podcast we interview L’Estrange London Co-Founder, William Green, about where the brand name originates from and the story of how the brand was born, which began with a simple smart and stylish men's hoodie. After reaching out and sending samples to fashion stores around the world - and attending clothing trade shows - they were quickly picked up and stocked by the likes of Colette, Saks Fifth Avenue, Isetan and The Shop at Bluebird. With a product design approach to menswear, they don't follow the seasonal approach the majority of the industry abides by. This direct-to-consumer brand is on a mission to simplify the male wardrobe with comfortable and effortless clothing which can be worn for most scenarios. Peter and William also discuss sustainability and how the Covid-19 pandemic has affected trading for L'Estrange London.
Whilst we have your attention, be sure to sign up to our daily MenswearStyle newsletter here. We promise to only send you the good stuff.
Hello, welcome to another episode of The menswear style podcast. I'm your host Pete Brooker and today I am going to be talking to co founder of the strange London well green. The strange is a direct consumer brand on a mission to simplify the male wardrobe for a selection of comfortable seasonless versatile pieces that can be worn in multiple scenarios. So that interview coming up shortly and by the way, well as a fantastic speaker, it was just a pleasure to let him run, let him talk, let him explain his journey. It's what I like best when the clever people talk. But first, make sure you're checking out our website, men twist style.co.uk. That's where you'll find all the links all the images in the show notes for today's interview, plus all the articles on fashion travel. Again, maybe not so much to travel, but maybe the lifestyle features and the competitions you'll find over there. Also, if you're following us on the social channels, just punch in menswear style, you'll be notified when the articles go live. And if you want to get in touch with the show, maybe you want to tell us about your story. How did you get your brand off the ground? Email info at menswear. style.co.uk Okay, here is that interview with Walgreen co founder of L'Estrange, London. it's my distinct pleasure to introduce real green co founder of L'Estrange, London. How you doing today? Well, yeah, fine. Thanks, Pete. How are you getting on? I'm very well, we were just talking OFF AIR about the name of the brand. Hopefully, you can just give us the etymology of law strange before we get the rather left fields, middle name, I have well share with all my siblings. Tom and I were kind of at a losses when we did start the brand, what we wanted it to be called. And it was a toss up between lestrange and Chancellor, which is Tom's middle name. And in the end, the strange got the vote. So we kind of liked it sort of, slightly International. It means the foreigner in it derives from the French word, the tajae. Which means that the foreigner the stranger in French, so we kind of like that idea. So So yeah, love it got it got put put through, but you both have really cool middle names. I mean, what are the odds of that? And when you say you put out to a poll, was it a Twitter poll? Was it a coin toss? No, it was it was more like it just is more for a conversation overall 1212 cup of tea of the day. And, and 10th bar of kitkats, which was which was spelt a lot of the picture of the launch of the brand back. Back when we started it from Tom Tom's mother was actually used to be a buyer at Harrods many years ago and then went on to work with Margaret Howe for over a decade I think so so she she witnessing us starts starting fascinating from her kitchen table. Was was I think I think eventually became a proud site at the time. It was for like, don't don't go into it where you're mad. should not be starting a business in this in this industry. Listen to me. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But it was it was how you actually supplied us with a good good. Good amount of chocolate and tea. Way back then. Yeah, cornerstone of any meaningful meeting about fashion. Well, that's the name perhaps you can give us a thumbnail sketch, if you will, of the brand and how you what we already know how it came to be, but perhaps the stepping stones of how you got it off the ground? Yeah, sure. I mean, then. So the strange of work we could we've kind of had to there's two iterations. In fact, the the, the, the brand's Genesis was really around a product Tom and I quite, quite show say naively, had I had this idea for for redesigning the humble hoodie, which we we thought was a very forgotten garment in, in, in men's wardrobe. And we figured that there was a way that we could design a product that was smart, stylish that you could wear in lots of different environments that it wasn't sort of relegated to the you know, you're wearing a hoodie. It's It's it's, you know, inappropriate essentially. And, and we we'd, we'd gone out to various parts of East London sourcing fabrics and zips and just, you know, just going at it with with actually no specific experience, my background is actually in product design and originally went to read architectural though changed and Tom's background wasn't wasn't, wasn't at all in design. So, but but we both shared a huge love and interest in in fashion and, and products and, and business. And, and anyway, so we went out and sort of to create this product which, which we we we launched without really a huge amount of strategy, frankly. But we quite quickly got we were sent envelopes back with package with sort of little handwritten notes to a handful of stores around around the world. And, and we were we were very fortunate to get picked up by places like, collect from, from that outreach, obviously now now shuttered but that was just a huge, huge thing. And we just we went we started going to the trade shows and kind of you know, going on the circuit as it were, with this with this, this collection of hoods, as we as we call them, and and you know, before we knew it, we we sort of stopped in a couple of dozen places around the US including a lot of Saks Fifth Avenue doors with we had stockists all in Japan, including ettan. On the homefront, the shop at Bluebird, which, which also now no longer were, was was, was born, but was around the corner from where we were, can we work with that kitchen table I mentioned. And, and we, that, that that was that was the kind of first incarnation of the brand. But it was, it was really it became a challenge as we started growing. I mean, not just the product range. But but but frankly, our sort of competence and our outlook in on the industry. And, you know, how operated what we wanted to do within it, where we saw the opportunity for the strange, we really became frustrated with the, you know, the buyers that we were running up into, and the kind of the underlying ethos of the strangers really well, and in the beginning, in the beginning, it was really wide and everything as straightforward as this product that we've created, why can't you just go to your wardrobe, you open, it doesn't matter where you're going in the day, you can put on an outfit, and it's it's it is it's a suitable in an office environment as it is on a plane. And and and that was the kind of that was that was given to us by the hood as it were. And we set out to create products that fulfilled on this, this kind of simplicity, simplicity objective. And that meant that we were really taking a much more product design approach to developing product. And we were spending a lot more time we were investing much more heavily in the r&d process of fabrics. And we really didn't look at the collections, we were taking two buyers as something we wanted to disappear one season to the next. And we we I think our naivety at this point was we probably felt as an issue, in retrospect, it was kind of what became our strength, because we just didn't really get this kind of seasonal collection model and that, you know, the cycles that would that would that were going on. And eventually that that led us to, to pull the plug entirely on our what was main our main business in, in, in 2017. And we we we set about to just completely restructure our, our operation to be direct to consumer and, and pursue our mission to simplify the male wardrobe. So that meant hiring a new team and getting very, very radical on a different approach to growth and marketing. And you know, obviously the whole internal structure of how you how you operate that. And we then launched as a as a as a fully direct consumer business. We were building it all in the other sort of back end of 2017 and we launched it fully at the beginning of time. 2018 and and that sort of began the second chapter of strange, which is, which is what we now see here today. Interesting. your background is product design, are you involved in the pattern making as well? Are you designing the products to the extent where you know how to design patterns? for clothes? I'd love to say that I could, I can't. No, it's it's the product design lens is really a it's like a, well, it's a problem solving lens. So. So that's, that's the, the idea of going into a wardrobe and going look why it doesn't function as simply as this then becomes a design problem that you're just trying to solve. And so you're, you're, you're thinking about the product at that level. And that does get you to thinking about how the product is constructed? Where is it moving? How is it performing? And, you know, technically, what are the fabrics need to do in order to deliver that, what you know, where my carts be made, but no experience in pattern making. And that was that was, that's definitely something we had to bring in. Yeah, I love the ethos of the brand. And what I really like is how you can kind of dispel this preoccupation that guys have of having to have certain items or certain occasions and certain seasons, when really all it is is just a huge calorie burner. And ultimately, down to their core, all dudes want to do is just go into their wardrobe and go that that and that and beat out of the door within five minutes and not have this kind of whole charade where they're lining out clothes on the bed. Look, I get it, some people actually. And I actually get the people that really do like that attention to detail, you know, the kind of dandies put together that is a little bit more ostentatious. So we stay, I reckon that is about a 5% of dudes, if we I mean, unless it's nice not to say don't have that it's like, it's like, we were like, Look, we don't sort of, well, our vision of, of fascist, and everyone should be wearing the same clothes and not have any kind of dimension to their wardrobe. But it is saying that like, No, you know, 90% of the time, you're leaving the house. And and you just, you just you don't want to have to wait, why should you have to think about it, it's actually only we, we kind of look at two sort of macro trends of, of the sort of casualization of society. And, and the the the technology and the technology revolution that's kind of driven this move away from the office and, and kind of sort of loosely called it like the deathless generation, but but, you know, the fact that we're always on the go was on the move with time poor, we don't really know, to an extent you where you're going to end up in the evening, and there was a point, you'll probably recall, there was a point where you might have gone to work and, and, and then after work, you did this weird thing where you're like, I'll meet you out after I've got to go home and get changed. And, and it's like, I'm sorry, you you're going to you want you're going to go home for two hours, or like, whatever we're going to be, you're going to change your clothes, come meet me out. That's the most that's the most ridiculous concept that like every anyone ever accepted. So So, but that's obviously happened as a result of the fact that, you know, technology has enabled us to move away from from, from being in that very rude that kind of regimented routine. So we kind of looked at you look at both those sides, but and you and you see that? Well, we, we want to have the casualization of society has also created this. Actually, this lack of routine in the way men dress. So ironically, he the way that technology has enabled us to move all around, it suddenly means that it's not appropriate to just be wearing a suit. And the suit actually used to give guys a lot of routine, you know, you knew what you were going to wear there was like that was it was done. You had your suit in a weekend you had had had your other stuff, but as you've lost that, as you've lost that guiding that guide road, actually dressing has become a little bit more complicated. And you are going to your wardrobe and you're thinking well, so what am I doing today and you're kind of probably subconscious equation of what you're dressing is a result of thinking, well, who have I got to see and where have I got to be and depending upon who I have about to see and where I haven't got to be I'll probably choose my most comfortable clothes. And and and and that is where we can have come in. And we're like, well, we want you to be able to wear your most comfortable outfit. You know, as if you were going on a plane, you weren't going to see anyone but it's exactly the same outfit you want to wear when you get off the plane, you go into a meeting. And, and and really solve that, as you say that guys just want to throw and go to their wardrobe throw on throw on the outfit, and that's it. Yeah. But we do, we do like to think that there's a, you know, there's a 10%, there's an extra, there's an extra, you go to a party, or you're, you know, you know, going on a date, whatever it may be, have a little bit of flex. But, you know, 90% of it's probably probably having a real simple, thought free, thought free solution to dressing. You know, I haven't that's so true. And I haven't actually thought about that until just now. But what you say especially someone from my age, so, early 40s grew up in a place where fashion was just so uniformly dull. In a scramble in a grammar school where you know, you get sent home if you didn't tuck your shirt in. So a lot of the decisions from the ages five to 16. When I finally did flunk out of school, were out of my hands of what I had to wear it was going to be this shirt with these trousers, and that would be your routine. Now I think all of our adult lives we're now trying to break free from these restraints. But then when you do fall into like the nine to five, you get given back like this wonderful blanket of conformity the suit the shirt, the concertina, one ship Monday, Tuesday for it and you can have it on a rotor. And now we have the casualisation where that doesn't even come into play. We're kind of rudderless again. So we go to a yes. And we go well, what is it gonna be today? I have absolutely no and I've got no instructions. Yeah, exactly, exactly. I mean, that that was that is it? That's what we're contending with. It's just suddenly you've got this confusion, you realise that? What am I doing? I'm spending, I'm actually spent there's some statistic somewhere that men spend on average, 20 minutes a day deciding what to wear. It's like, That's ridiculous. But why are we wasting this time deciding what to wear on a daily basis, it's just not that it's just not a good use of time. Like we're in this, you know, never mind the fact that, you know, you might think you've got to have all these different outfits, all these equations and that's all confusing, but it's just a time waster as well as being addict, which is nuts. Yeah, no, it's absolutely insane that I'm spending more time choosing my wardrobe than my girlfriend is I never thought I'd get to that stage. And by the way, I often get pulled up on that as well. So give us a little insight please into the philosophy for your brand when it comes to sustainability. So first up, you know we we really look at sustainability. It's a it's a it's a complex thing, you can't distil it to you know, purely one element and often at the moment you know, people understand sustainable sustainably sustainably made and sustainably made is super important. And we use 6% of our Cotton's are organic within 12 months we'll have the scale to make them 100% we only produce from renewable or recycled sources. So recycled is if we're using polyesters who use recycled polyesters or not or nylons. And, you know we're experimenting with with fabrics like the kapok tree, brilliant tree, which is which is sort of naturally regenerative organic conserves, conserves water promotes biodiversity is this produces this not which has this this kind of cotton like substance on the inside, which is fantastic. And can be used for insulation as well as being made into things like t shirts and the like. So, so sustaining sustainable sourcing is is is vital part of the equation, but but but we but we really feel that it's, it's, it's kind of table stakes, it's not, it doesn't get you everywhere that you need to get to, and and, you know, to our minds, it's it's really really foolish not to consider that the whole use of the government and you know that and the way in which it's it's the way in which it's it's sold. You know, our kind of whole approach as a business is to is to You know, eradicate seasons, eradicate collections, eradicate the need for sales. And, and really find the true value of the products to customers. So that it can come anytime a year. But But importantly, come back year on year, and the same products are still there. And, and they still feel of the same worth that they were the previous year. And the good thing is with the collection model is, you know, if you buy a product, it doesn't matter in the end, how sustainable or sustainably sourced and for being accurate, how sustainably sourced that the product may be. But if you only wear that product once or twice for the season, you could actually buy it, it's sort of most unsustainable cousin as it were. And if you if you, you know, let's say you bought an organic t shirt versus a non organic t shirt, your organic t shirt becomes worse for the environment, if your non organic t shirt is worth 110 times as much, and and our our our thesis is really, you know, how can you you know, we look at the circle a lot and this the idea of just closing closing the whole loop. First up is you start with design, you consider how you can create products that really increase the the products, longevity, you're then looking at how the products can be used to that maximal effect. So you're encouraging your customers to to wear the product much, much more we actually, we actually recently did a poll, or we did a survey to our customers. And we we found that our customers on average are wearing our trousers three times as much as as the kind of average statistic. And, and that's, that's an interesting integral part of the equation. And then finally, when you come to, you know, the end of the lifecycle of the product, you you want to be thinking about how you can and you know, you can properly dispose of it or find a new a new home for it. So we actually have a partner that that called regaine, that that recycles all of our, our products. In fact, the only place we do offer a sizable discount is you can and it doesn't not just strangers, you send any clothes back to this, this this, this partner, and you'll receive a discount to to shop to shop with us. So that it's really that whole, that whole loop of design through to use. And then the onboard recycling processes is how we look at it. Yeah, I love that kind of the green ethos of all this is just a byproduct of what essentially is the key thing, which is a good product. I'm seeing I don't about you, but I'm seeing a massive sea change anyway, in a lot of the brands that are out there. And moving away from this kind of buying low stuck and high mentality where it's more about having good products that you'll have and your wear frequently and for a long time and even hand them down. I mean, there's like generations of people that would hand down clothes, this would be a thing of the past. I mean, can you even think of clothes nowadays in the everyday man's wardrobe that they would even last the rest of the year, let alone last a lifetime that can be handed down. I know. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, that. That's like people are just completely forgotten about that. But the funny thing is, is that stuff like fast fashion which, which which to be honest, fast fashion gets a lot of heat, but it's that, you know, as as, as I again, we've argued before, it's not just fast fashion isn't really the source of why we want what's driven our sort of throwaway mentality. But it's crazy, that fast fashion, it's only been around a few decades, you know, it, people weren't able to buy like that. And, and so the idea of hami downs and things is really it's just it's not it's not long ago that we that we were doing that. Yeah, it's kind of like this ballistic popularity of having everything so accessible, having everything now and having everything from Fiverr that is just completely overwhelmed. And you say like, the fashion industry isn't regulated. It's only gonna be a matter of time. I mean, we're second in the world only to oil to be one of the biggest, massive Yeah, that's what they say, isn't it? Yeah. No crazy times. I mean, I mean, the thing, the thing about how you can actually get get back, get back to that that place. I think it really is the response. instability, or, as we look at it, it's more the opportunity to, to, for companies to work out how you can create products and, you know, and services and business models that actually thrive in in that sort of world. I mean, you know, for us, for example, we have actually, we've managed to, to build a business that, you know, we, we've never, we've never run a seasonal sale. And that's incredible from just a business practice of predictability of, you know, how your sales are going to be one month to the next you haven't got the peaks and troughs you aren't focusing in. That's, that's, that's great business. And it's also great for the customer. In fact, it's amazing forecast that you haven't got even got this sort of there any of you experienced the feeling I certainly have, where you where you go to, you go, you go to a website, you buy a product, and you might come back a few weeks later and suddenly get a discount, you feel so you feel so negative towards the banner, you know, how am I How have I done that, or, you know, as probably more typically happens these days, you just wait until a brand goes into sale? And before you actually do any purchasing? Well, that's, that's useless as well, because then it's you're sort of waiting to go purchase twice a year. And it's it's, it's, you know, you're trying to sort of outsmart the system. So that, you know, it's not good on on either side. So, you know, I think it's really there is an opportunity to to, you know, find find new ways to to make and consume. I know, I totally agree, it really does permeate with me as well. I used to run an independent fashion store just outside of Cambridge, which I actually somehow managed it. I bring it up every episode, I don't know why maybe I'm just still hung up. listeners will be like, it'll be like why it's relevant. It's not relevant in the conversation. The reason why Yeah, I'm not talking about my Hornby railway set over a limit pay about mastering Cambridge. Very nice. Anyway, it was a failure went off the face of a cliff. But one of the takeaways I had relevant to what you were saying was that we did always throw out this promotion, that was free for two. So it'd be a weekend thing if we had if we had a really poor couple of weeks in store. And you know, we really need to pull it back without this promotion, we do it overnight on the text to our database. And then the next day that you just have this swell of people that have come into the store and it everything will be rosy over the course of three, six months, nine months, you'd actually see this kind of pattern forming where people would actually be waiting for this promotion like clockwork, they wouldn't actually come in to do any regular shopping, and even the regulars would come in and ask when I when am I going to be kicking out the promotional text. So they refrain from buying anything, even though they had the products in the hand. So again, people feel cheated. I mean, imagine coming in the store that day, spending 500 quid and then getting a text later that night saying now everything's free for two, you would just be irate. I thought, you know, I feel bad, to be honest. I said, you know, you're like, I'm five minutes later, I'll do fucking here's the deal. Okay, you know, I'll give it to you. Because Because Because in the end, like if you want that person to have a great, great experience, right? Yeah, I totally agree. William, can you tell us how you're getting on now amongst the pandemic? And how is COVID-19 affected trade and your supply chain? And well, we are currently we're treading water, as it were with our suppliers, everyone is closed, we have we produced 90% of our product in Italy, with factories Also in, in Portugal. And everybody, everybody of everyone is closed at the moment. So we've we've we've definitely been under pressure from this from the supply side. And fortunately, we are in a place where we you know, we had some reasonably good levels of stock of some of our products, not all of it. So if you go to our website, Nate is still able to buy a lot of our core core range charters and T shirts in particular. So we've been we've been fortunate on that size. And we, unfortunately, do have a store that that that that has closed. And we definitely felt the impact in the first in the first were the immediate aftermath of the crisis. But I have to admit, I think we've actually been somewhat fortunate. We've we've felt it insulated in a way, we know, although we've lost the sales from from the store. You know, and obviously, we've we've, we've had to, you know, do a few things internally with how we manage the business and, you know, look at our expenditures and just, you know, be prudent about what what we've got going on, we've, we've definitely been, you know, listening and taking, you know, the help that is, is being provided by the government, although it's not, it's not, it's not not all the help has been provided by the government is useful to brands of our size, or companies of our size, or our stage and in our growth as it were. But But like I said, we've been somewhat insulated, because online sales have actually stayed pretty good. In fact, they've been, they've actually been really great. In fact, I sort of feel I sort of feel a bit bit bad for saying that, but I think our product is in the end, you know, it is what it it is what it set out to be it's versatile for all seasons. And, and that means that it is comfortable to kind of, to what to wear around that we wear around the house, we we had an article go out on on a puma which, which I'm not sure if you're familiar with that great kind of design destination. Send me a link. They do do to menswear, as well as lots and lots of other product, but but they did an article and it was on on just, you know, say no to sweat pants. Right, basically, and then sort of provided the options out. And and, you know, that's, that's where we came in again, is that, you know, we we we don't like this The sloppy look, we've always set out to to smart and every every corner, but just keep that same comfort. So. So I guess that's resonated. And, you know, I'm pleased to say that we're kind of weathering the storm, as it were. But, you know, it's, it's, it's a challenging, it's a challenging time out there. And, you know, whilst I think we've been, we've been, you know, somewhat insulated, we've not been totally insulated. Obviously, we, you know, we do have a physical sword. I think the, I think the really interesting thing is that it's giving people a pause for reflection. It's giving people a pause to, you know, both business, from a business perspective, on a personal perspective, it's giving people a point, to just think, you know, is this why I want to be involved in, you know, I saw the founder of APC is, you know, he said, he doesn't want to, he doesn't want to go back to the kind of the circus of doing shows of shows anymore. You know, Santa Ron just just announced today that they're, you know, gonna take back their take back control of their shedule and dial back the kind of spectacle of the shows, you know, fashion shows, in general, they have a huge impact all in all, in and of themselves, you know, carting hundreds and thousands of people around the globe, as often as we do, just to kind of, you know, stage things that, you know, is, to some degree, yes, are somewhat just indulgent. So, I think, I think it's, it's, it's a really interesting point, well, you know, fashion is really having to reconcile with itself. And, you know, I don't want to, you know, wish bad on, on on, you know, anyone because the struggles are real, as you mentioned, at the beginning, we've had, you know, there's the garment workers in the developing world, are really the kind of the sharp end of the stick, you know, the cancelled orders or delayed orders for the really, really big outfits are, are, are, how the most marginalised will actually feel the impact. Because, to degree, we were also, you know, we're lucky, you know, most of us who are, you know, have the luxury of engaging and buying the products that we that we make, and the society that we're in. And, you know, we don't see that other side of we don't see that other side of the of the way it is, and that, you know, they those people, they don't have safety net, they don't have governments that can provide the same social support just in the way that that we've done and, you know, I think those sorts of truths are, are just giving people that that that pause. And I think there's there's an interesting, really interesting pause, beyond the obvious of just saying, Okay, great, you know, We can restructure our business models in some of those are more obvious, I think, I think the realisation of of the fact that we do need an economy, we do need a thriving a thriving global global economy that that creates value and, and allows people to participate in, in, in, in the creation of value and, and obviously, you know, build, build build livelihoods around it, you We can't just expect to, you know, some of the more radical thinkers, you know, argue that, you know, growth is bad and that sort of thing. And and I think that those arguments are they they fall short of understanding that once we do need to consider the right type of growth, it's important that that, that we that we do have to have a thriving economy. And, and, and really, if there's something to come out of it, it's to recognise that, you know, the choices that we each individually, individually make. Already actually so important, because the sum of those choices is has, or in this instance, or the lack of our capacity to engage with the economy has collapsed it. I mean, it literally, I don't know about you how you might sort of consider that, that that notion, but certainly for me, it's an abstract to say, Okay, great, you know, make a better choice, you know, turn that light off, choose to, you know, go meat free, that that that that one meal, you know, buy from that brand you think is doing a better a better job. And you might think, okay, that's great, but like, how much does this really add up? How much am I really affecting things? And then, you know, this is what this this this crisis has, it doesn't matter what happens afterwards is this is what the crisis is given is that that that gifting of that idea that the sum of all of those choices, creates everything, creates everything that we see. And without any of those choices, it wouldn't be that way. So, you know, if we were to take a moratorium in, in, in in flights, say for a month, a year, or something like that, you know, me that maybe that that's something that, that that would actually really radically change our, our, our environment, and we actually, that we have the power to do that. And I don't think something like that was really, I didn't have something that was really crystal, crystal clear. Before it was it would be too radical is too abstract to think about how, you know how our choices added up. But I think that's something that we've I think that's something that we really, we really have taken away from from this crisis. Regardless of what of what happens. You know, we can't kind of, you know, we can't not know that we can't unlearn the experience that we've now that we've now seen it. Yeah. Listen, William, I could listen to you talk, and I could joyfully talk to you for hours, but a conscious, you might have a life to lead outside of this interview. So thanks so much for taking time out of your day to speak to us and L'Estrange london.com. We'll put all of the links over on the show notes. That's where you can catch them. And I do encourage people to have a dive through the site. It's fantastically curated, you know, you can really fall down some rabbit holes. And like I say, you can still buy a lot of stuff even now. And when we're all back out there. You're shutdown in seven days. Is that correct? That's right. Yeah. That's right. We'll take a little pilgrimage down there. So thanks for Thanks. Thanks for having me on. Great, great to champion and you thanks, William. Take care yourself. All right. Take care. Thanks, Jason. Well, how about that? Thank you. Well, L'Estrange, London Silla strange. london.com is a website you can visit. We'll put all the links over on the show notes menswear style dot coda UK, that's the place you can find it. So thank you also, for listening. Lots of podcasts out there you're choosing to listen to this. You review it you share it, you tell a friend we love that about you. Until next time, remember it's only fashion people and you never fully dressed without a smile.