Menswear Style Podcast

Darren Tiernan, Senior Cutter & James Macauslan, Cutter at Budd London / Bespoke Shirts

March 02, 2020 Menswear Style Episode 48
Menswear Style Podcast
Darren Tiernan, Senior Cutter & James Macauslan, Cutter at Budd London / Bespoke Shirts
Show Notes Transcript

Budd has been located in London's Piccadilly Arcade since the company’s inception in 1910 and forms part of the elegant thoroughfare of shops that leads into the famous Jermyn Street. Like all of Mayfair’s traditional arcade boutiques, the shop is tiny, but its size belies the wealth of goodies that can be found inside. Budd is a veritable Pandora’s box! Budd's prime offering is shirts. They make all of their shirts by hand at their workshop here in England. They are also one of the few remaining West End shirtmakers to still have its own cutting room on the premises. This is located above the shop and has presided over the Arcade for over 60 years. As well as shirts, Budd carries an extensive range of dresswear, nightwear, a fantastic selection of ties and bow ties, braces, socks, and many more accessories.

In this MenswearStyle podcast episode Peter speaks to both Darren Tiernan, Senior Cutter and James Macauslan, Cutter & Brand Creative Consultant at Budd London. They jump into the rich history of the brand and dissect the handmade shirt, discussing the different shirtmaking stages, from first being measured, to the complete final product. This laidback chat which took place within the brand's cutting room is full of interesting tailoring facts, insights and tips that are not to be missed.

Whilst we have your attention, be sure to sign up to our daily MenswearStyle newsletter here. We promise to only send you the good stuff.

Unknown:

Hello and welcome to another episode of The menswear style podcast. I'm your host Pete broca and today we have a very special show as I speak to shirt makers Darren tin and James McCausland from bud London. Believe it or not, this is the first podcast I've ever done in person. I visited the bad London store, which can be found in Piccadilly arcade and met Mr. butcher, the pattern cutter who's been in the shirt making business for over 50 years, and various other members of the team, but has been located in the Piccadilly arcade since the company's inception in 1910, and forms part of the elegant thoroughfare of shops that leads into Jemaine Street. Like all of may 1 traditional arcade boutiques, the shop is tiny, but its size belies a wealth of goodies that can be found inside, but it's a veritable Pandora's box, as they say. So Men's westoe have also teamed up with bad London for an exclusive competition where one lucky menswear style reader will win a 250 pound gift voucher to spend at this prestigious menswear brand. You can find out more about this competition on the menswear style site at menswear style.co.uk and whilst I'm here let me just do a quick bit of housekeeping over on the men's wear style site. If you click on the Member Area on the top right of the homepage, you'll be taken to our discounts and loyalty section Section. Section. This is where you will see exclusive discounts and privileges from hundreds of your favourite High Street brands within fashion, lifestyle, beauty and more. We currently have 20% of a new balance 15% of a horse and Curtis 10% of tm Lewin and 50% off at Cornerstone and we've just added some more 15% of our pasta 20% pursue fitness and 35% of my protein. You can use these discounts both online and in store helping you to save over 2000 pounds per year. Okay, I can't remember if I gave the bad London website a proper plug in the interview. So let me do it now real quick, but shirts.co.uk is the place to go. If you're not able to get into London, visit the website. But if you are local, I strongly advise you to head down and immerse yourself in British heritage and sartorial decadence. Lastly, if you're on the social type in menswear style into your smartphone and will come up almost everywhere. If you'd like to get in touch with the show or become a guest and talk about your brand and its journey then email us at info at men's West co.uk. Okay. Here is that interview with Dan Harrington and James McCausland from bad London. But it's my great pleasure to introduce to the podcast Darren tin and James McCausland from bad London. I'll start with you, James. How did you get into the shirt making business? Let's get the full story. Yeah, so I started off. I did a foundation degree at London College of fashion and hated it. But I really enjoyed the making side. So I pursued tailoring going through new in college. And then through new in college, you then get placements on Savile Row. And I stuck with Huntsman on Savile Row. I was there for about a year sort of showing up trying to get them to pay me basically. And then they said to me, Well, we can't pay you to work here, but we've got a shirt shop. Do you want to go and work down there? And so I said yeah. And have been here ever since. Okay. Okay. downplays Yeah. Well, I mean, I've been doing it a little while longer than James i've i've been doing shirt making for come up for 34 years sort of thing. So I first started doing a classic apprenticeship shop called bearing arundell which was on Savile Row, which is 14 no longer there. As I say it was a traditional shirt making apprenticeship. I work there. And yeah, we were the only shirt makers on Savile Row. And so we had all the business from all the tailors there, there was no conflict of interest. So yeah, that's kind of how I started in the trade. then went on to work new lingered for a short while for a while and then back onto Savile Row. worked at dejan Skinner for a while and have been at bad for eight years now. Yeah, but I've known you know, john and Andy. For the 30 years I've been in the trade sort of things and john and Andy are the John's the head john butcher is the head cutter here. He's been here at bud but alone over 50 He is. And yeah, I think he's the sort of shirt cutters cutter. So yeah. And Andy is the shop manager. He's been here at bud for about the same time as me being in the trade sort of thing about 30 odd years. So now almost a century of knowledge. And maybe we can just learn a bit about by chipmakers how long the brand's been going, how long it's been here in Piccadilly arcade. Well, it started in 1910. As we were saying, it was originally across the road from where it was now. But during the war, a bomb came and built up the shop. So Mr. Buck just hopped over to where it is at the moment. But we are the only original shop in Piccadilly arcade. And we've pretty much been doing the same stuff. Isn't it started? A lot of the stuff you see in the shop are till the chairs that we have in the shop. They're all original from when the shop first opened in 1910, I'm not sure how many years ago that is not to do that. It has an incredible place. Right? You were just telling me upstairs how kids were going up and down the arcade on skateboards, you know, and you just have to go out and say, Look, if you get this wrong, it's gonna cost you three grand to replace a pane window here. Yeah, I mean, that's how, you know, treasured and historic places is such an incredible place to be. Do you have that? That feeling when you come to work here that you're actually you know, you? You're deep in history right here? Yeah, it's like working through through time warp really, you kind of it's a funny thing, you you leave your house, but I cycled to work. So I were sort of jeans and a T shirt and a cycle in and who get here and I suddenly feel really underdressed. And if I leave work to come here, and I'm wearing my suit and tie and and everything ever really overdressed, right until I get and then suddenly everything settles down. It's a bit like a weird museum time capsule in here, that kind of everything is precious. And and so you had the additional, you're saying you have Mr. BUTCHER upstairs, he's doing the cutting of the shirt. So maybe we can just talk about the bespoke making process. What would someone expect when they come in to budget makers and ask for a shirt bespoke shirt? Yeah, well, we were lucky is a company that we operate above the shop. So we have three cutters, myself, James and Mr. BUTCHER. So yeah, so if someone does come in that they, you know, they can see the person who's making the making and cutting their shirts. And I can also see it, where it's being made, which is, you know, it's rare to find doesn't get very, very hard to find. And the fact that there's three of us here is, is also a bit of a bonus, as well, but the process would be someone would come in, we would discuss what what they need the shirts for, you know, is it business, pleasure, bit of both sort of thing? What fabrics I would need, where they're gonna, you know, are they do they live in the UK? Do they live in hotter climes, you know, discuss all that. And then we would measure them, we got that in the fitting room, we have an order sheet where we probably take about 20 or so measures, and different figuration notes on there. So, you know, that's probably the most important start that we want to get as much information as we can from the measurements and the figuration. And that's the really important thing of the customer seeing us rather than seeing a salesperson is that we get to see the figuration, the way they stand, the way they hold themselves where their weights carried, because its posture and everything. It's like when you have a like a hollow back, or, I mean, I guess a large t doesn't really matter in shirt making, I'm guessing, but you can have like a half inch shoulder that's dropped compared to the other shoulder. So lots of nuances that you need to look out for when measuring and just like with with coats, the shirts hanging off the shoulders. And if we can get the shoulders nice and clean, what happens, the rest of the shirt will just be easy because it's done to the customer, how big or how small they want to as long as it's clean on the shoulders, then we're doing our job, right. And that comes from seeing the customer talking to the customer, relaxing the customer and kind of doing something that a salesperson would never be able to translate to the cutter who does the work. And that's why customers coming in and seeing us is it certainly you know instils confidence in them. And they like the fact that they can come in and speak to James and speak to me and it becomes like a friendship sort of thing. But yeah, it is important and as James says, when you're measuring someone, you can see everything but as well which Which tailors that you can feel your hands are such a good tool. If you're measuring someone you can feel, and after if the shoulder drops down, or it's a bit hollow, here in the collarbone. So, you know, it is very sort of tactile and very, very useful. And as James says, you know, people expect the cutter to be there and to do that, so it doesn't instil confidence with them. So once we've done the measurements, we then draft the pattern completely from scratch, upstairs in the cutting room. So if James sees his customer, obviously, as we just said, he'll make the pattern to do the fitting, I do mine, and john does his we make the pattern from scratch, it's not from block or anything like that. So from the order will then cut one shirt, it's not like tailoring where they have the luxury of, you know, inseams and letting it in and taking it out. We have to make it as a finished item. Right? Okay. So we then get the customer back in, we try on, go through the kind of different kind of fitting aspects that we need. With regard to kind of shirts, as James says, must be kind of once we're happy with the shoulders, and it hangs nice from there, you know, the rest is pretty much down to the customer. collar sizes and sleeve length, probably the most personal thing on a shirt. And what are people typing into? What are people really asking for at the moment? Do you see any trends in the shirt making businesses there's something that's kind of in vogue at the moment with those as far as fit to the shirt? You see everyone, I always ask people, how do you on the shirt to fit and generally speaking, everyone just goes through, not too big, not too slim. But no one really comes to us anyway, for a super slim fitting shirt. Or for a massive aluminium show, they kind of come to us expecting something kind of in the middle and comfortable, but neat. So I think certainly for companies like us, it sort of sits on the same radar Savile Row, it's not a fashion piece that you buy from us, it's something that lasts forever and and as much as we'd like to be classed as being fashionable. It's just which creates a mix of timeless and classic. And that's what people expect. So they don't want anything super skinny. Because ultimately, you have something too skinny, you have a big meal, and it won't fit you anymore. And so what happens when people do fluctuate in weight or put on body mass. And whether that's the nice thing about the bespoke process is that the patterns that we make for the customers are theirs. And they don't necessarily pattern but they say the patterns are there as and we keep them and we don't change the patterns unless the customer tells us to. So if the customer were to put on a bit of weight and starting to feed it in the neck or the waist of what have you, they just tell us, they're getting a little bit tight. And so we stick it a bit on or we'll re measure them if it's if it's a big, big change. And sort of make the shirt fit the same mat as it did before but just to their new measurements. And as opposed to sort of when you go to a made to measure process, it's cut off a stock block. And then if somebody were to change that stock block, that means those shirts will not fit you in the same way again, whereas bespoke that will never happen. The pattern is yours. And will only change if you tell us to or if we feel it is not looking right. But we'll only ever do it with the customer. So there's a lot of consulting and it's very personal to the customer. And then what have you seen over the years in terms of strange requests or people coming in and asking for things that you think okay, that's, that's new? Yeah, I mean, I think the advent of, you know, the web, the internet, Instagram, things like that, that's kind of it's been twofold. It's great, because people, it takes the kind of word I'm looking for the people get a bit kind of worried about coming into shirt makers into what they used to, you know, there's that slight trepidation of coming in, you know, but the rise of kind of, you know, social media, and the like, you know, it's a bit more accessible to people. So, which is nice. It means more people to come in and not frightened to come in. You know, sometimes a little knowledge is a dangerous thing. You have some people who cannot win, I've read this, I've read this and I want this, you know, James tell you kind of go well, that's not how it works with us. That's not going to work for you as a fit. You know, so it's, you know, a bit of both. But but but majority, that's majority of the time, it's nothing but positive with the social media aspect. That's the sort of the good change in it. And positive change fashion wise. I think going back to what James said, I think, you know, people come to us for practical clothes for work. Ultimately, I think when people come to ship for shirts for us is basically, you know, for a nice quality shirt for work. And, you know, that's their initial need. But we then build up a relationship where they come in, buy their shirts for casual wear and go on holiday, and they learn to appreciate what a shirt can well, and what can what. You know, what I did have a customer said to me once he said, It's all your fault. Oh, all right. Sorry. When he went, he said, I cannot buy shirts anywhere else. Now I have to get them made. So yeah, it kind of shows me kind of doing good things as well. So yeah, yeah, yeah. And the nice thing about social media is that, certainly when I get the slightly more interesting requests on, I can post a picture of the final show, and it inspires other people to go down the same route. And so it's kind of use that as a platform to show what you do through bespoke, and then people find new things out that that's kind of inspiration. And certainly with a lot of the younger people that come in the really nice thing about bespoke is that we can do anything that you ask to a certain extent, obviously, there's the sort of people that come in and ask for things, expecting them to be a certain way because somebody else does it that way. And we have our own way of working. But we can kind of figure out most things. And if you ask us to do something, unless it's completely wrong, we will always try and do it. Obviously, certainly with Mr. BUTCHER, he's been there and done that and seen everything. So if he says it's not going to work, then it's not going to work. Because he's seen it not work several times. But yeah, I mean, I've got some crazy requests in my time, but I quite enjoyed them, because then a bit more creative than before. I think we do. You know, even me, I mean, I think you kind of go on, I'm not gonna do that. That's not gonna work. And I think in the end, you're kind of professional kind of professional head goes, Well, no, I thought to have a go at that. And they're not too outlandish. I mean, I think there's a far issue. It's been a big, big success for us over Sure. You know, we've got that the raglan sleeve shirt, which is, which is really, really, you know, is what he's wearing at the moment. I'm wearing it. Yeah. So this is no good for people listening to the podcast. I'm just curious of the shoulder because there's no obvious seam that runs across your shoulder, but it kind of runs down from the collarbone through down under the armpit undulates down there. So that's it. Yeah, that's very, and it's this one originates from Mr. BUTCHER, was going through his attic, at his house and came across these patterns that he had done years and years and years ago. And so brought them in and we all started playing around with them and taking them a bit and now we've kind of finalised on you've also got the one piece buttoned down collar on it. So it works really nicely as this kind of casual. It has to be oversized, for the shoulder to work. Just kind of oversized casual collar that still looks smart, but as comfortable as the little bit quirky and different. Yes. So we are open to, to kind of new things and trying stuff. And I was just going to ask other than the ones that you've just mentioned, is there a real hallmark of a bad shot, something where you could perhaps point it out and go, that's definitely a signature. They're very subtle. And verint just walked out the room. And yeah, so obviously the blood colour is very classic. You can you can spot it, but it's very subtle. It's just the forward point colour that neither of us fully point colour, very classical. Certainly with the stock shirts, we do something that's a bit quirky on the sort of classic stock shirts, we have a shoulder tuck in the top which allows us to lengthen the sleeves of the customers need them a little bit longer whilst the customer waits and so sometimes you can spot a budge by having the shoulder tuck in the shoulder tends to just be something we do for stock though but the bespoke features. I can't think of anything else that would be this this it's not that totally where you have a house style right. Okay. This You know, it doesn't really kind of portray a shirt. But no, I think the kind of I think James said it. I think James said it, I think the kind of that kind of sort of classic kind of English West End collar, which is slightly more cut forward a little bit softer. Would you say James would agree with it, not sort of fused. And yeah, the kind of the market ones at the moment. But this is where we get a bit complacent because we say softer, but we don't fuse anything to the cloth. It's all the loose lining on the inside. So when people fuse to the class, sometimes that can be a lot of finding because you use a finer fusing, when you fuse it directly to the cloth. Within the collar, this is Yeah, and the cuffs as well. braces sort of linings we use are a bit a bit thicker, then that would be but sort of compared to other people that might do so loose lining now a bit softer. Again, it's really subtle. By this shirt, Microsoft spear so probably getting very nerdy now. Yeah. Well, I had a very nerdy question for you, gentlemen. And I've asked this to a couple of shirt makers and a couple of friends of mine that make shirts and their divisive fights break out into pubs over this. With regards to ready to wear shirts, would you regard quarter inch stitching on the collar? As a as an easier the road of least resistance if you see what I mean? Whereas if you have handige hand edge stitching on a collar is actually harder to do because there's less room for error, or is it just null and void is just an aesthetic thing and choice edge stitching or edge stitching done by hand? And so if it was, as I'm referring to ready to wear, so if it was edge stitching, I would presume it would just be done by machine. Yeah. already aware? Yeah. Yes. My opinion. I think we're ready to wear I think it kind of cheapens it a little bit. But that's just my own personal point of view with it. I think the quarter inch stitching around the corner always looks a bit more finished a bit more traditional. I think that historically the edge stitching is sort of associated with stiff collars. Yeah. Yeah. So I find when you do edge stitching and you have a loose lining on the inside, it's very easy for the cloth to get pushed over the top and you get quite horrible looking knife pleats right at the edge of the collar. And it looks particularly messy when you put the quarter inch stitching for some reason it intends to make the colour a bit cleaner and sit a bit cleaner and you still get the knife pleats if you iron it wrong. But it's a lot less it's got like a little housing. Yes. Yeah. Just I I personally find the edge stitching just leaves a bit more room for error reading with sort of the longevity of the show that unless you were going to start which is what it kind of originated from. Yeah, definitely that that's what it was because you look at stiff collars that we have here. They are edge stitched all the way around. Yeah. But then if you refusing it to the cloth, and you wouldn't have that issue of it pressing and so then it's just personal tastes and I think cord stitching just looks a bit neater and a bit cleaner but it's personal preference. I think we've cracked on that on that one. I'm gonna go back to my friends and say like the the arguments one and done here, gentlemen. Moving on to so once you've had a bespoke once you've had the measurements made for a bespoke shirt. It's been cut here, and then it gets made and sewn somewhere else. Yeah. So we cut the patterns and the cloth ourselves upstairs in the shop. And then we bundle up the cloth and we send it to our workroom which is in Andover in Hampshire. Where there are 16 separate roughly 16 I keep I keep saying ladies, but they are actually all women. So 16 seamstresses, yes, yeah. You sit down there and so all of our shirts together, and is there a minimum order with it for the first order it's for and then that just allows us to make a sample shirt and remake that sample shirt until we get it right. And then going forward from that there's no there's no minimums. We would ideally like people to continue ordering it for us, but we're happy to do once if they a couple of dozen, whichever you need to be good. Five suitcases going on tour is the the studio here in GarageBand for going up and down the country. Yeah, I should instal a better recording software. I think they kind of took the plume off the road when I loaded up GarageBand earlier. Well, gentlemen, I mean, really fascinating to talk to you both. Thanks so much for your time. Thank you. Thanks for coming. And this is the only bricks and mortar for budget makers. Yes, we do have a short of shop in Washington, Sterling and Burke, but they stock are ready to wear stuff, but they work under their own name. So it's a bit it's a bit of a weird, complex. It's, it's in its infancy. So James and I will do our trunk shows in DC, from Sterling and book, but they keep all the same product that we keep here. Okay, there as well. So yeah, they also offer army to measure service as well, which is different to bespoke is sort of buying reuse. We always used to call it a stock special. So the because it's a special order of a structure. So you can have the sleeves, whatever length you want, you can have a different colour size on different body fits. And you can have your choice of cloths, colour styles, cuff styles, and so sort of stylizing and slightly editing your own show. Which they can offer over there. We offer here just in DC that you do the trunk shows or you know, we go over Yeah. We do the East Coast. So we do New York, DC. I do Boston and Philadelphia and Chicago. James Paul do the West Coast leg so he will do la San Francisco. So I get the sunshine. But I guess the shorts trip. He doesn't get the radar chip. Yeah. Great. pleasure to talk to you both. And people should definitely stop on by and have a look at the store if nothing else, cuz it's a it's a beautiful boutique that you guys have got here. And congratulations on keeping the history guy. Thank you to another hundred years. Thank you, Darren. Thank you, James. Once again, the website is bad shirts.co. UK you'll find all the links to their social channels there. Thank you guys for listening. Well, it wasn't too bad was it? Let us know what you think. If you prefer the in person format, leave us a review on iTunes and we'll read out some feedback on the show. But only if it's complimentary. If not, then well. What's the point? Until next time, remember it's only fashion people and you're never fully dressed without a smile.

Podcasts we love