Whilst studying at University in 2012, Co-Founders Lucy Ross and Jamie Bartlett found the university’s optical clinic which became an integral source of inspiration for the development for their first spectacle frames. Thanks to the kind support of technical officer Gavin Hill and head lecturer Glyn Walsh, they were gently introduced to the technical and practical aspects of optical frames. Fortunately for them, the on-site optical clinic became a hunting-ground for the mechanical workings of spectacles. During many “pestering sessions” the optical staff and lecturers were kind enough to demonstrate the handling and dispensing of glasses frames. It was a curious endeavour which provided a first-hand understanding of both the design and optical elements of eyewear.
Having studied Product Design together, they both had experience in 3D modelling, prototyping and manufacturing processes. After graduating, they swiftly built a small workshop at the bottom of Lucy’s garden where they continued to practice and hone their skills. Since then they’ve invested in numerous machines, tools and components which has allowed them to design and make their own spectacles and sunglasses frames on-site. Banton Framework frames aren't just any old import that came from somewhere else, they come straight from their own hands in Glasgow.
In this episode of the MenswearStyle Podcast we sit down and speak to Jamie Bartlett, Co-Founder of Banton Frameworks. Our host Peter Brooker speaks to Jamie about the brand's beginnings during university. The co-founders would break into the university during the summer so they could keep making frames to sell. This then helped them make enough money to buy their own first machine which would enable them to set up their own workshop. They also discuss UK manufacturing, bespoke frames, polarized lenses, popular shapes and biodegradable acetate. The discussion also touches upon leveraging social media for sales and working with influencers.
Whilst we have your attention, be sure to sign up to our daily MenswearStyle newsletter here. We promise to only send you the good stuff.
Whilst studying at University in 2012, Co-Founders Lucy Ross and Jamie Bartlett found the university’s optical clinic which became an integral source of inspiration for the development for their first spectacle frames. Thanks to the kind support of technical officer Gavin Hill and head lecturer Glyn Walsh, they were gently introduced to the technical and practical aspects of optical frames. Fortunately for them, the on-site optical clinic became a hunting-ground for the mechanical workings of spectacles. During many “pestering sessions” the optical staff and lecturers were kind enough to demonstrate the handling and dispensing of glasses frames. It was a curious endeavour which provided a first-hand understanding of both the design and optical elements of eyewear.
Having studied Product Design together, they both had experience in 3D modelling, prototyping and manufacturing processes. After graduating, they swiftly built a small workshop at the bottom of Lucy’s garden where they continued to practice and hone their skills. Since then they’ve invested in numerous machines, tools and components which has allowed them to design and make their own spectacles and sunglasses frames on-site. Banton Framework frames aren't just any old import that came from somewhere else, they come straight from their own hands in Glasgow.
In this episode of the MenswearStyle Podcast we sit down and speak to Jamie Bartlett, Co-Founder of Banton Frameworks. Our host Peter Brooker speaks to Jamie about the brand's beginnings during university. The co-founders would break into the university during the summer so they could keep making frames to sell. This then helped them make enough money to buy their own first machine which would enable them to set up their own workshop. They also discuss UK manufacturing, bespoke frames, polarized lenses, popular shapes and biodegradable acetate. The discussion also touches upon leveraging social media for sales and working with influencers.
Whilst we have your attention, be sure to sign up to our daily MenswearStyle newsletter here. We promise to only send you the good stuff.
Hello, welcome to another episode of The menswear style podcast. I'm your host, Pete broca. And on this episode, we're going to be speaking to Jamie Bartlett. He's the co founder of banten frameworks, they make some wonderful frames for glasses, beautifully considered eyewear designs produced from high quality materials that are made to last. They're all manufactured in house, within their workshop in Glasgow, and it's a really interesting backstory, you're not going to believe how he got it off the ground. So stay tuned for that. In the meantime, let me do a few of the house chores, I won't go through the entire litany of what's in the VIP area this time, but just to let you know that we do have a couple of add ons that you can find in the VIP area that's added the as of June and footlocker discount codes that's in the members area. And you'll find that when you go to the website, it's in the top right hand of the page, click on that. And it'll give you all these discount codes for different places that you can shop using our discount codes. How about that. And you might want to follow us on the social because that's where it will tell you all about the latest articles and competitions that happen on the website. That is at men's wear style pretty much everywhere. Facebook, Twitter, I'm sure you know the drill by now. And if you want to get in touch with the show, maybe you want to talk about your brand and your wonderful journey, how you got things off the ground. Why not give yourself a pat on the back then email us info admins westown.co.uk. Okay. Here is that interview with Jamie Bartlett, co founder of banten frameworks. Welcome to the podcast, Jamie Bartlett from banten frameworks.co.uk. How you doing today, Jamie? Yeah, I'm good. Thank you, Peter. How are you doing? I'm really good. Jamie, thanks so much for joining us today. Well, I like I start every show, For the uninitiated for the people that haven't heard of your brand. Could you just give us an introduction to who you are and and how you started Banton frameworks? Sure, yes. So my name is Jamie. I'm co founder of Scottish eyewear company and manufacturer of Bantam frameworks. And in regards to how we started the business, that kind of takes me back to 2012. So my business partner, Lucy was our she's my business partner, no, well, back in university, she was in her final year project. And she was designing frames, and specifically kind of to sort of impart the idea of sort of firm self image, and how they change their perception. And so we we kind of joined forces, excuse me. And basically, she asked me to kind of help right, make some of the first prototypes. And long story short, that was the end of the project. We both graduated. But we kept making glasses frames were kind of became a little bit obsessed with how they were made. And what were you studying at the time? Well, I was actually in the same course. We wrote and we were coursemates. together. And I was doing a different project. It was it was called the industrial project, which basically meant like you tried to obviously sort of industrialise wherever it was your design was for production. Okay, so excuse me. So yeah, the two her project was designed frames. And basically when the when the course ended, we graduated that summer, we basically kept making friends together, we were kind of getting into the swing of, you know, how could they Luke hook it to the made of things like that. But the problem was that because we graduated, we kind of had lost access to the university's equipment switch we're using to actually make the frames and the workshop in university. This is just how the Ghostbusters stories went, by the way. Sorry. Yeah, they lost the funding, and then they had to go out. So like, but yeah, exactly. Well, basically, we, we sort of said, Well, how are we going to keep doing this because you wanted to basically make some frames and the plan was that we were going to potentially sell some at one Design Week, last September to make some money to do the Master's Course. So long story short, we ended up basically breaking into the university night through summer, to be able to make glasses frames to make them. You broke into the university. Yeah, we brought back into the university to make enough frames to sell to what we thought was going to be a Master's Course funds, right. So based on my flat, which was maybe about half a mile from the university. We actually were shooting an Aussie return up at night, we would go into the uni and we had managed to get hold of a key which we still have. They were basically going in at night. Don't tell me that now. People Yeah, well held back on this for a while. That was back in 2012. So we were, we were breaking in at night to make frames using the equipment that was ours, about a month Kleier. But obviously, we had no longer had proper official access to it. So that went on for about the equivalent of three months. And we got to the end of summer. And we basically had like the components of glasses streams, because we kind of kept back getting better at making them. So I kind of started again and again and again. So anyway, we finally like basically, the last day before this this semester started, which would have been like, pretty much the beginning of September, we basically were in the late before in this just the studio still making frames or parts of frames, which we which we then all took with us down to London, in our BMW Mini. And then with our flat pack stand, we exhibited at design junction, which is part of the Design Week, in September in London. And so we sold our frame bus, we sold a handful of the frames over first frames. And the the money we made goes back home. Thankfully, we've also managed to buy one of our first machines which went into our new workshop, which is at the bottom of Lucy's garden. Right. Yeah. So that was that was the baptism of fire to say the least. Right? But yeah, that's amazing. Yeah, I imagine like on the, on another podcast as a detective somewhere still trying to crack this case, talking to like investigative journalists and like, say, what happened to all the components? And how come the universities down another 10 grand in their budget? So yeah, well, yeah. I mean, we weren't here ever. We never did anything wrong. Spell everybody given the the dormant you utilise free enterprise. I'm all up for that. So the equipment is laid out over summit anyways, we thought we'd give it to you soon. Oh, great. Well, listen, that has to go on the website somewhere. There is there might be might have changed a little bit over the years. But that is the original story. And it's kind of I think, no, it's actually probably more appropriately tailored rather than maybe like, a year after we started the business. Yeah, yeah. You're too far down the road now. Definitely. Yeah. So I'm gonna skip forward a little bit. But the so banten frameworks, the manufacturing is done here in the UK, how important is it for you to have manufactured classes here in the UK? Well, to basically to carry on where I left off about the machinery we we had essentially started or Kickstarter as our as our own production. And albeit, you know, it wasn't, we're not heritage brand. We weren't, we didn't have three or four generations of our family prior, who were seasoned spectacle makers, we were just kind of laying the books as we walked over them. But what actually allowed us to do unknowingly at the time was to take complete control over how we operate as a brand. And, you know, I think it wasn't really necessarily important the beginning but as the more we did it, the more we realised, like we were actually control their own destiny. Because we weren't at the mercy of other manufacturers minimums, we could make as many or as little as we want at any colour, and it shaved him. And that hasn't really changed since day one. And truth be told, we've never actually even I mean, we've looked at what other manufacturers may be charging for their frames we've never to this day, saw it, you know what, maybe what if we bought a batch? Because it's always, in my opinion, made more sense for us to make them? Hmm. So I mean, you're gonna have to teach me this, like my five year old. But if someone came to you and said, Look, I'd like for you to make me a glass. Is that possible? Can you do like the bespoke element? Or is it just not not the way it worked for you guys. It's changed over the years. So we check we reviewed, we generally work in very large, very large, large for us batches. And that's down to the machinery that we've invested in over the years. So their intention, or the way we began was literally quitting frames, it took maybe like, a week to make a handful of glasses frames. You know, that was like an achievement quarters. Now, like, it's actually we're not geared to do that. It's actually inefficient to make like that, but I'll get to that in a second. But the cool thing, but they're the way we've invested in the way that we've obviously employed our degree in design was never necessarily craft oriented. And I think that's something that people can get a little bit confused by when they see us making the frames Don't get me wrong, but they are handmade. They're not getting shown data and machines in their millions. But the way we work is in large batches where we've essentially streamlined our production where you know, 100 200 300 400 frames is kind of like Tyra gear. But as for bespoke work, we've actually just recently did a project will be launched five slots, so people could buy a slot in essentially, over the next month, month or so. We're gonna be making bespoke trains for people, which is something we haven't done before. And what is it felt so genuine? So yeah, no, it's fine. So we basically like we booked out a whole month where we said we were gonna make these frames of space, right? Yeah, yes. Like, so we made enough time and space to be able to develop five bespoke frames for for people. So yeah, those are those five slots were available to customers to buy if they want us to make them there. They're perfect glasses frame are so cool. Yeah. So it's really exciting. So it literally just closed a week ago. And is that the exclusive glasses frame section on your website? Or is that something different? It was different to that. So yeah, so you what are the sizes are sort of offerings that we we have we have this club, as we call it members club is essentially our newsletter, but reason why we call it a club is that we launch basically, limited edition glasses frames once a month, every month to see essentially what how people respond to certain colours or shapes. And it's a kind of like a rolling dialogue between us and our customers. So once a month, we launch our bespoke shape or a particular style of frame, sometimes as little as one frame, just to see how it goes. But then just there have been other projects, we've had sheets a particular material, we've made the frames from such as vulcanised rubber, and we had about six of those they sold out in like a half an hour or something like that. It's just, it's really, really good. But I guess that's a really great kind of conversation between us and our customers. Because obviously we can gauge what it is that they're they're they're looking for. I've got a question, Pia, Jamie, and this might sound a little bit left field again. But imagine there's a group of people that go Look, I really like what Sean Connery wears in the movie fundable? his glasses look fantastic. Can we do a production run of something like 50 or 100 apiece? But then you go wow, like, I can do something like that. But then how do I package it as something that Sean Connery is wearing? Because there's licencing laws, etc. as anything like that ever happened? And it's funny, you mentioned that because, you know, obviously eyewear is so vast, there's so many frames so many remakes of I was like you mentioned Sean Connery, or, as we were talking about earlier, prior to the podcast, we were talking about James Dean, you know, these, you know, these famous frames that were essentially like I can eyes by these actors, movie stars, whatever. Yeah, I mean, the thing about design is obviously things can be registered, especially in naming but in terms of actual the actual spectacle frame the lines shape, it's actually quite difficult to protect that. Not that I necessarily mean, for example, we've got our version of The Aviator frame is aviator is obviously coined by lotion long in the 1930s, which is obviously adapted or adopted by reburn. You know, it's it's kind of a ubiquitous style, but no one actually outright owns that ship. It's not like anyone can can't make it enough shape. That's the teardrop shape. Yes, there's obviously a rebound, obviously, kind of coined some of these classics, such as the rebound, the wayfair, clubmaster, things like that. And there's other companies such as more Scott who've got their sort of staple thing called the lamb Tosh, you know, we've got our array of shapes as well, which I consider to be, you know, very well sculpted, very well made, but obviously, it's kind of like music, you know, there's only so many ways you can sort of make the shape. We're gonna have to eyeholes and those bridge Yeah, to temples on the sides, you know, so yeah, no, interesting. Well, listen, it's a fascinating area of the business, but I think you can only really toy or get to get into the weeds with this. If you are a bespoke company, like yourselves, maybe a very independent company where it feels like you're very accessible. Jamie, like I'm talking to you now. But it also feels like there's an audience or a community around plantain frameworks that people can come to you and go, look, I've got an idea. Can we can we roll with this? Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I think manufacturing is at the core of what we do. We live and die both what it is we can make. And I think that's why going back to your question, everybody requires important artists like essentially, that is like the keystone of what it is we do. Switching gears here slightly. I'm always interested to know, the thoughts of founders and owners of brands when it comes to social media and influencers. You've you've kind of getting your way up the top now people are reaching out to you you have a presence. How do you leverage social media to your benefit? It's a bit of a love hate for me. I've been charged with most of our social media. I'd have to say like, I think it's for me, it's very much like a job, but at We're all I love interacting with people and like discovering other companies who specialise in one particular thing like us. And that's the nice side of it. But the thing that the business side of it is a little kind of hazy because I think that the ROI is kind of notoriously low compared to like SEO or PPC or pay per click tactics. Right. I've actually heard recently that some of the bigger players are actually pulled back on their rate of social media posts, such as, I think the other day I heard like, super dire, I've like, cornered their their activity, and they've actually doubled their their engagement. Okay. I know. And I think it's not news to anyone, you know, that I think that we are definitely over fed content. And so you know, so I see almost kind of like a bit of a problem. So obviously, we all kind of try and switch off and you know, where's the light? But then, you know, equally I've actually had the pleasure of working one of your previous guests, David Evans. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Great folks blog. He just emailed me just now. He just sent me a picture of the James Bond book, the original book by the birds of prey, or the birds of Jamaica or whatever. So I thought the original was cinnabar. Oh, oh, no, that's that. So that's the petitioner James Bond. James Bond in Fleming took the name James Bond from an offer. Roger Philip. So it's my dog. So, yeah, he was looking for a name for his superhero. protagonist, and he was in Jamaica in GoldenEye. And he loved the birds of the West Indies asset birds of the West Indies. And that was by a guy called James Bond. So he just goes, That's basic enough, that's not going to offend anyone. Oh, Nick, that. There you go. Yeah. Sorry. You're talking about David Evans? No, no, it's fine. Well, yeah. So I had the pleasure of recently working with David Evans, who, if he has to hope he doesn't mind me saying this, but he's a very full quitter. Obviously, he really likes a friend. He's obviously an ambassador for British men's wear, you know, people that I love working with on that basis, because I know that he, he comes with our value, he comes with our tone or a theme. And then either UK manufacturers of eyewear, not that there's many of us to be honest. We're kind of like the new kids on the blog to be to be fair, but I think it's actually a good thing. Because as much as there's very few of us, I'm not really that bothered, or, or threatened or perturbed by the idea of being featured, say, one month, and then maybe two months down the line, say it was another brand, that doesn't really affect me. But when I see influencers who kind of there's just no theme, there's no like, structure to what it is. Yeah, I find that a little bit confusing. And I think it also kind of makes you question as well as like, you know, if anyone's got a few thousand followers, Are they an influencer? Technically, yeah. Because it's the word of mouth. It's just your digital format. No, and I think that's that's the way I proceeded. You're in good hands. If you're, if you inline with David and, Mike, my famous only wear things that David wears. So that's a pretty that's my free line. Yeah, I can go too long. Mary's say he's got some really good stuff. He actually just definitely, after I worked with him earlier last year, he had an eye he sent me some images of him in Landrover defender for a blog about class distance classes for driving. And I was struggling to find images of like the right kind of guy driving the right kind of car. And then I realised I saw on his blog, he was in his defender doing a kind of map of what the actual piece was about. I was like, Can I use these? And he said, Yeah, go for it. So yeah, he's recently featured on our blog as well as a good guy not to rhapsodise about David for another, I don't have a 20 minutes on David, then we'll move on. He really does champion like British brands and British manufacturing. And in fact, I know it's one of the very first questions that he asks, because I've been to many press events with David. And in the middle of say, the presentation that whatever CEO or founder is doing his shtick, David would actually pause and go, and now where it is manufactured, because that's almost like at the top of his list of things to you know, wax lyrical about if he wants to talk about a brand. He goes, Well, these are actually made in the UK. So this is why, you know, this is why I'm here. Yeah, I think that's a good thing. I think as well, some people are just kind of wired that way. I used to be a little bit more sort of aggressive stop. Like I was quite kind of almost, it was like almost like a binary yes or no, there are some people who kind of straddle the two and like they've got some components that are made elsewhere, which I think it's fine. I think in the words of David Actually, he said, you know, as long as values been empowered, he'd in this country skill has been utilised and implemented in the product. Yeah. Dan, you know, I think that's a positive thing. And I think, you know, there's a real sort of doormen sort of culture in this country. When I say dormant. I think there's a sort of Plus aware. So I've kind of been trapped, it's sort of relationship where I don't know what I'm trying to say it's kind of essentially like our grandparents or perhaps have either either that our parents maybe have had involvement or seen or witnessed manufacturing of goods in this country or think of something that we're very capable of doing. And I think since automations become, and technologies become so much more attainable, I think that manufacturing in the UK is being more viable than ever, you know, and you see companies like Jaguar, BMW, they're getting cars manufactured here, the textile industry is obviously still race strong. You know, and I think with automation, it's becoming more and more of a viable prospect. I mean, I, you know, here's me, talking about me making versus friends, I wouldn't be able to do that if it wasn't to access the technology that I have, if I wasn't born in this, you know, in this surge generation, I wouldn't have been able to have done that I would have had to vote source to just like anyone else who asked for a very hefty loan to be able to buy machinery, but because everything's so much more accessible, you can buy machines, you can buy, you know, these sort of desktop laser cutting machines to CNC machines, you know, you name it, you can start a business tomorrow is to open an account with Shopify, and we go, I'm not saying it's that easy. But, you know, that is what we're, that's the opportunities that we have. And, you know, the times it wasn't, you know, well, I think it's great in one hand and awkward in another. And I'll do around about femaleness. So great in that there is a lot of ways that people can set up what I call, like their own pirate ship, you know, I run, I run this podcast, along with the editor for menswear style. So do another podcast, I often think, well, I can run my mouth, what and whatever I say goes on my other podcast, because you know, that's me just calling the shots. And in a way, that's great, because that kind of empowers me. And that gives me a voice and a platform. Now, and the other sense, there's always people that have their own platform, their own social media account, they might have their own vlog. And they may feel like they never have to answer to the man until they get into their job at 9am. In the morning, the boss pulls him into the office and says, look, you need to shave, because you're in front of house and you need to look good. And all of a sudden, well, it's, uh, You're not the boss of me, who are you to tell me what to do? Because they've just spent like the whole weekend telling other people what to do, because they're the key person at the tip of the spear of influence. You know, they're the ones that are king of their own mountain, for example. So, it I think we're at a time where people are now trying to traverse, yes, they've got their own platform and their own voice and they feel like they're independent. But yet, on the other hand, there's still someone in the background in the nine to five telling them what's work. Yeah, I agree. I hear you saying, No, I think there's definitely like kind of a cultural shift. I don't know if this is me, because I've been working for ourselves for last eight years. But yeah, I think I get an impression that like, if I can use this where the entrepreneurial isms kind of getting almost sold quite a lot quite. It's almost like a commodity online. You see adverts about kind of people monetizing. Essentially, their spare time people call site hustles. You know, you name it, and I think it was definitely a stronger, maybe more piland theme for that going on at the moment. It's just me. No, no, I feeling it. So, Jamie, whilst I've got you on the phone, I just had a couple of questions that I really wanted to learn to ask it so that I could learn about glasses as a whole. So could you give me the Idiot's Guide to polarised lenses? is a term that I hear all the time. I see it on the shops and in on websites example, but if if, if I had to explain it to someone, I just wouldn't have a clue. Yeah, it's like it's a bit of an enigma. And I think it's kind of an awkward one. Because it's simple, highly work. explaining how to work effectively and efficiently can sometimes be a bit tricky. And I've actually spent the last year I spent six months writing about 12 articles around polarised lenses, so hopefully I can do that job. And so essentially, we are sunglasses are fitted with polarised lenses, but primarily any sun lands regardless if it's polarised or not has to be UV protective 100% or 99 to 100% uv protective. But polarised lenses give a secondary benefit and the value in the way that they can block a horizontally oriented light. So it sounds a bit scientific but basically because we are quite low to the ground, as humans are not that tall. Generally like any light that hits any horizontal surfaces such as water, snow, ice, a wet road, changes orientation, and essentially becomes horizontally positioned as it as it travels towards your eyes. And what happens is when it hits a polarised lens it can get through which essentially improves and your overall vision. So basically the polarised lens only lets vertically orientated light into the lens and that is Essentially clears the box almost all horizontal glare, if that's what, you know, people, glare, that's horizontal light, which is obviously if you've ever walked near water on a sunny day, and it's bouncing off the water, you can barely see, yeah, it's also pretty painful to be honest. And what that does is over time, glare, whether you are aware of it or not, I'm sure you've thought you know, if you've ever driven anywhere on a sunny day for maybe 234 hours, what happens is it taxes your eyes, to the point where you do actually realise it, but you basically got a fatigue, you can get headaches. So polarised lenses essentially, like, reduce that noise. And to give you essentially a smoother view, but it gives you a slightly better colour perception. better contrast, just overall hightlight better definition. So yeah, they're considered our superior son lens. But what's quite cool is our 2020 lens for the summer, we've we've we've got a polarised lens again, but what we've done is we've actually put an anti glare coating on the back. What what that does is basically, because of our style of frame was pretty, you know, it's a fashion oriented frame, it's not necessarily a sports sunglasses frame. But what that does is people you know, if you guys are listening at home, you'll know what I mean when there's like a side gap between your frame and your cheek. And what happens is like light can get down the back of that, which is just one of those two sort of traits of a sunglasses frame, like a wayfarer style. And what happens is the light can actually bounce off the back of the lens into a. So you're actually know and it's it's quite subtle. Yeah, like if you're standing in a particular way, it can actually pretty much like sneaky. Yeah, like coming in. from behind. It's exactly Well, it's most of the times pretty noticeable, but especially with like quite exposed areas, or if you're standing a certain angle can actually bounce back into your eyes. So what we've done is that, you know, this is a high quality lens. This isn't revolutionary, but it is for our 2020 election. And what we've done is the AR down to reflective coating on the back actually wet the weight pass through from the back. So it goes it goes out the frame, so it can bounce back into your eye. So essentially, it's like a one millimetre light, you know, UV lights protected from the front polarisation on the front of the lens. And that absorbs obviously, the horizontal way, but then any light is coming in from behind actually the light to go through from the front. That's so cool. Yeah, it really is. Plus, it also looks amazing, because it's actually got this blue tint on the back of the lens is kind of like those mirror lenses, you see, but on the back. Yeah, so that the front looks great, you know, like a standard sun lens, but it's really nice. Like, it's the best of the best and quite excited about it. Now, are they coming out? Are they on the website at the moment? They are, they are good to go. They are alive now obviously, as we're approaching start strength. So yeah, I'm on the website, what they called. And while they're in all of our lenses, so that's actually one of the good things as well as like we just said we just drew a line in the sand a few years ago and said no, all of our lenses are going to be polarised. That's it. People can obviously order non polarised ones including prescription polarised prescription non polarised, but standard non prescription sunglasses are polarised to standard with with all of our friends. I love it. Listen, everyone should be on this website. Yes, banten frameworks dot coder, you can banten they are en for Nigel, not bantams or anything like that. So banten frameworks that will put all the show notes up on mentor style.co.uk. So people can check that out and send him where to go. Oh, Jamie, fantastic. And Mike, congratulations, you got a really good website, a great brand. And you know, all the best here as well. So I guess whilst you were talking, I actually had a question in mind, but it's going to be quite tangential to what you just explained to me that I was at lunch the other day with a friend who sat down and he was wearing sunglasses. And I was like, This dude is rocked up to lunch wearing sunglasses indoors, how incredibly Bono of him. And he said, Look, I'm sorry, I know this looks really bad. But you know, I've got an infection in my eye. And I don't want to for you guys to keep staring at my bloodshot eyes. So if you don't mind, I wear the sunglasses indoors. And everyone in the restaurant was looking at anyone going Crikey. How cool is that guy just wearing sunglasses? For people for us with like someone from the mafia. Now, I'm going to take that because I'm going to go to a few events at the end of the month. And I think it's time that I actually started wearing sunglasses indoors to get on a T shirt and ameliorate my look but because my self esteem is low, I'll just tell everyone that I've got a STI or you know, a black eye or something. It's a funny one. I think culturally in the UK in general, it's not sunny enough to justify keeping sunglasses on indoors. But then something I've kind of come to learn about is that obviously in warmer climates, American culture and Australian culture especially, and the they wear sunglasses, a bit more of them. Free freely a bit more liberally, but it's also to do with actually the lenses that they have in their frames. Right. So, because there's different grades of, of 10, you can get so generally more sunglasses frames, or category 310, which is kind of like your all round kind of darkness of lens, quite as like a lighter category, such as one or two are much lighter. So they've essentially they are still block UV light, but they aren't as dark to look through. Right. Okay. So what happens is they have no especially like, because obviously, it's what I do, I look at people on films and stuff like that, and you see them wearing them, you can actually see a lot more of their eye or eyes. And then you could if it was maybe a darker lens. And I think we're quite used to in this country like it was sunny or you're driving, you put them on, you know, it's kind of like this tool that we use for his sunglasses and other cultures early, almost integro is the guy I met from Italy. And you see most of his friends, like have like three, four, sometimes 10 period of different pairs of sunglasses, kind of like brogues or shoes or ties, it's very much a part of their their wardrobe, purse, philosophy, this thing you dust off and in April, or maybe, you know, getting ready for your whole and that's if you find them, I mean, you've already flashed them away for eight months, you know, who knows where they're absolutely, you know, just there's a kind of wish for lens, which is actually for mounting meeting, which is almost pretty much like pitch black to look through. But it's obviously still it gives you more comfort when you're hiking up Everest, but yeah, like generally lenses are between category two and category three. So Jamie, listen, thanks so much for your time, what have we got cooking for later in the year? What projects have you got on the go for 2020? Sure. So we're making the transition from essentially was a combination frame, which is our current serve as take fun with the metal save, we're no gunning towards a fool acetate frames, that means it's got asked to sites or temples if you call them out for arms, some people call them most to, to go with that. So yeah, it's a big change for us. Because until now our frames would be a combination of the two, the metal and plastic. So that's really exciting. So that's launching later this year. With that some more machines are on their way. We've just invested as the most we ever had from the workshop, which is really exciting. And that's actually launching this autumn. So prior to that, and I was going to ask you whether or not you'd like to come along, we're attending the British man's pasty in London, Spencer house at St. James's on the seventh of July. And I was actually going to ask whether or not you and some of the guys from menswear style Craig want to come along so we can get you some invitations. conferencia de coaction for launches not. Yeah, that's not an imposition. We'd love to come. Yeah, absolutely. There's been a few invitations that have been held asides, if you can give them away to people. So yeah, it'd be great to kind of get your well I think David Evans is going to definitely be well, that'd be like the premiere I guess for these. Yeah, well, it's a big move for us. Because obviously like a seemingly because we live and die. But what it is we can do and what we can make, you know, it's so it's a big change for us. But after saying we've got some prototypes downstairs in the studio, and they're looking really, really good. So excited till everyone see them because it's like the best thing we've done. We've taken such like such big strides over the last section of last year and the beginning of this year, and I think it's gonna be really good. Awesome. And you mentioned acetate, they're working with acetate, are you conscious of sustainability? And does that factor into the designs at all? Yeah, absolutely. So we found we've been this year, we've transitioned to the collection of biodegradable sort of bio plastics. So assets are traditionally made from wood pulp or cotton pulp. But obviously sometimes depending on the acetate, there's petroleum additives as well so obviously makes it a lot slower to break down. So we we've been using acetate that's essentially 100% biodegradable which is important I think for any eyewear company to be doing to the eyes today and these days just because there's a lot of waste that goes along with making a glasses frame I think it's something like 70% of the of the state isn't actually use because as a hollow shape figure of a machined plaster acetate it's removed from external of the frame and then obviously the internals as well so a lot of it isn't actually use to the company that we work with are the best in Europe. Their their acetates are absolutely stunning And better yet they're they're biodegradable, so yeah, it's it's a big consideration for us, but it helps that we don't we're not flying them to another side of the world that's for sure. Because I think the spectacles you know, they asked it can be made a few different countries, but there's only common tasks from Italy. So I need the best Yeah, the captain's table. But listen, Jamie, I could talk to you for hours about sunglasses. about David Evans, but unconscious you've got a life to lead. So we'll have to cut it short there. But listen Banton frameworks for Cody, UK the place to go and all the social links you can find Banton frameworks on Instagram, but all the links are through the website. Thanks so much for your time, Jamie. Always Tom, thank you very much for having me. It's been a pleasure. Jamie Bartlett there from Banton framework. Thank you, Jamie. I think we all learned something here today. And if you're liking what you're hearing, if you are learning something, why don't you leave me a review on iTunes and let us get higher up the charts as they say so that more people can tune in and encourage us to do more of these. So that's it for now. Again, thank you for listening. And until next time, remember it's only fashion people and you're never fully dressed without a smile.